"Homemade" Water Filter for rinsing

[russell hayward]

Knocked up my own water filter today :-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/elo2@btinternet.com/PICT0079.jpg

20" cartridge housing. Fitted some Hozelock 3/8 BSP connectors. Now these are not ideal as they screw in too far and stop the hozelock connecting properly. So, used some PTFE on the threads and its better. You can get decent hose tails , so I might do this and hose clip a length of hose on, and then put the hozelock connector on the end of that.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/elo2@btinternet.com/PICT0080.jpg


Got an empty resin cartridge and filled it up with some Ion exchange resin.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/elo2@btinternet.com/PICT0082.jpg


Dropped it in, screwed on lid and connected to water supply (at quite high pressure). Took sample.

Conductivity of tap water I tested today = 400 microsiemens

Conductivity of my filtered water = 3.9 microsiemens !! FAB !

This equates to about 6 ppm, so should be more than fine for final rinsing !

When the resin is "saturated" with contaminants, I can dispose of and refill the cartridge. It should be good for many hundreds of litres, although I'm just going to use a watering can full or two for a final rinse.

Hopefully it will mean I can scrap the drying stage. Test tomorrow if the weather is good.

[Neil_S]

Would be interested to see how quickly the crystals deteriorate, how much did you pay for the crystals and where did you get them?

[Wozza]

Hi Russel, any chance that you could post up the details where to get all the parts / bits from ? :thumb:
Also the resin cartridge is only about two thirds full, would it be even better if it were completely filled ? I have just aquired a Pure water Ion exchange resin filter, but its only temporary so this could be interesting.

I did a quick test this afternoon inbetween showers when the sun was out. When it had dried, the area where I poured normal tap water (half the windscreen and bonnet) had your typical water marks, the other side was spotless :thumb:

Also I have been read somewhere that if you have 2 filters (even if smaller), it is more cost effective as when the first filter has become saturated, you can still use the system to good effect, also you can then put the resin from the second filter into the first.

I have also considered getting an Aquagleam or similar and attaching it to the end of my hose and rinsing like that rather than filling a watering can.

Also did you test your own water or did you have it tested, if so what did you use ?

[Cliff]

Very interested in this also.
I use a water treatment firm for all my drinking water filter set ups at work, he was going to work out a more cost effective solution about a year ago but he is just rushed off his feet, shame as I could have got him loads of buyers :rolleyes:

[Phisp]

I too would be interested in knowing where you sourced the various components.

I'm currently using a 0ppm AquaGleam. Filtered water really does remove the need for drying. The only issue I have is water running down the front doors from the wing mirrors. An air duster would probably be enough to resolve this though.

[Rich]

Nice one you when we chatted at the weekend about it I had a feeling you may have hatched a plan. Looking forward to seeing how it works, as said previously I am sure you will have a couple of customers at least locally !

[GlynRS2]

Looks interesting, let us know how long it lasts :thumb:

[Bailes1992]

Can you give me an Idea how much all of this cost and where did you get everything?

[russell hayward]

Fortunately I had all the parts at work therefore very easy to rig this up.

Yes the resin cart only appears 2/3 full, it was nearly to the top before the water went through. The more thats in there the longer it will last, hence why I went for the 20" set up rather than 10".

I can't see how having two filters is more cost effective as you have to but two lots of hardware and you would really only need this if the reduction in inpurities from one filter wasn't enough.

Readings were measured using a conductivity meter, again from the lab at work.

I will price the parts up. We buy the resin in 25kg bags, which would last one person a very long time !

Not sure how long exactly the resin will last, it does vary obviously depending on the local hardness of the water. At work we have a large filter, about 4 foot high. This gets changed once a year and we get many thousands of litres from it. Deterioration is gradual, I do wonder how high the readings need to go before the dryings spots appear again.

[Sisson]

Id be interested in buying one/ or the bits off you.

Depending on price

[Neil_S]

You need a TDS meter, it would be highly interesting to know source PPM, PPM out the other end when new and then PPM readings after each rinse with an approximate idea on how many litres went through.

[hutchingsp]

Thanks Russell. I posted a similar thread about the theory/feasibility of exactly what you've done last week, but you've actually gone and done it and measured the results to show that it works!

Folks, the components can be had off eBay, any place that does Reverse Osmosis kit, and many fish/aquatium stores.

[Alex L]

Thanks Russell. I posted a similar thread about the theory/feasibility of exactly what you've done last week, but you've actually gone and done it and measured the results to show that it works!

Folks, the components can be had off eBay, any place that does Reverse Osmosis kit, and many fish/aquatium stores.

How much (I'm too tired and lazy to look :o and dont know what to look for)

[Neil_S]

One thought from me on going for two smaller filters over one large, say 2 x 10 inch instead of the 20 inch is that as the crystals absorb the parts and degrade you will get to a point where you notice the spotting on your car from the rinse.

It may be that the crystals can still filter parts out of the water, but because they are degraded to a point, the water spotting is evident. In this circumstance, changing the crystals will mean you are wasting some good crystals.

If you go the two filter route then you can have the water go through filter 1 and then into filter 2, hence you can ensure filter 1 is fully degraded before you switch. You would then refill filter 1 and move filter 2 to become the first filter to accept the source water.

[russell hayward]

One thought from me on going for two smaller filters over one large, say 2 x 10 inch instead of the 20 inch is that as the crystals absorb the parts and degrade you will get to a point where you notice the spotting on your car from the rinse.

It may be that the crystals can still filter parts out of the water, but because they are degraded to a point, the water spotting is evident. In this circumstance, changing the crystals will mean you are wasting some good crystals.

If you go the two filter route then you can have the water go through filter 1 and then into filter 2, hence you can ensure filter 1 is fully degraded before you switch. You would then refill filter 1 and move filter 2 to become the first filter to accept the source water.

I see the logic but the chances are filter no 2 would be degraded as well by the time you noticed it wasn't efficient any more unless you were monitoring with a meter.

Also, two filters is a bit overkill. This would give you 0ppm water. We really need to do a test and see at what level the spotting starts.
But, it would last twice as long as one filter.

Also, the resin I used is availalble as self monitoring, it changes colour when spent. Not sure how accurate this is. I will get some and try it.

[hutchingsp]

How much (I'm too tired and lazy to look :o and dont know what to look for)

Roughly:

£15 for a 10" filter housing with BSP threads.
A couple of quid each for BSP to Hozelock connectors.
£10 or so for a refillable 10" filter pod.
£7 or so for a kilo of resin.

Or you can just pay £55 for a heavy duty 10L Inline Portable DI Vessel made for Window Cleaners and just stuff it full of resin.

[russell hayward]

Roughly:

£15 for a 10" filter housing with BSP threads.
A couple of quid each for BSP to Hozelock connectors.
£10 or so for a refillable 10" filter pod.
£7 or so for a kilo of resin.

Or you can just pay £55 for a heavy duty 10L Inline Portable DI Vessel made for Window Cleaners and just stuff it full of resin.

Sounds about right, key to it is getting the right resin .

[hutchingsp]

Sounds about right, key to it is getting the right resin .

What is "the right resin" please?

[Wozza]

Everything you need can be got from here http://www.ro-man.com/

The resin is : http://www.ro-man.com/shop/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=925fa4a5ae1fb145120b566c481ee589

Do you think its worth investigating a group buy ? Admin ?
If so do you want me to investigate or does someone else wanna do it.

[shane_ctr]

i mite be intrested if there was to be a group buy

[WHIZZER]

have been working on it

[Cliff]

Count me in as well if this happens :thumb:

Cheers

Cliff

[Brazo]

Nice one Russel! You now know how to get some money knocked off the '1' series ;)

[Peter D]

Looks like a great idea - I'll watch with interest:thumb:

[russell hayward]

Nice one Russel! You now know how to get some money knocked off the '1' series ;)

Now there's a thought !

[Cliff]

Any news on how this went Russell ???

[Denbo]

It does work like lads am i window cleaner and we have this to clean windows but we have but a stop to washing it with the works van reason been is that the water is not good for the paint work ...

[Wozza]

It does work like lads am i window cleaner and we have this to clean windows but we have but a stop to washing it with the works van reason been is that the water is not good for the paint work ...

Are you saying that DI or RO water is not good for automotive paint ?

[Denbo]

The water needs to be filtered befor you use it on your car we got the big one the RO with tank in the van then we put a DI cn at the end of the system

In time the water is not good for the paint work it will dis colour the car !!

[Phisp]

In time the water is not good for the paint work it will dis colour the car !!

What do you base that statement on?

[Cliff]

Can't see how it can discolour if the paintwork is well sealed / waxed ?

[ian332isport]

I work (at the moment :( ) in the Semiconductor industry. We use an awful lot of DI (very high purity - less than 1 microsiemens) water.

We have to be careful what we put it through, as it's surprisingly good at eating through certain types of plastic pipes, and even brass and aluminium water manifolds develop pin prick leaks where the water attacks the metal. It's also quite partial to cotton clothes. Get it on a pair of jeans, and they will soon develop a hole :eek:

I'm not saying DI water will damage your car, but be aware that if you make the water too good, it may be a risk.

Ian.

[Denbo]

Can't see how it can discolour if the paintwork is well sealed / waxed ?

The water will take the wax off the car if you use it alot.

You will need to get your water tested to see if its Hard water or Soft water

If it hard u need to get both the RO and DI if soft you only need DI can then test your ownmade water with TDS meter and it sould be 0000 you can let it go to 0010 with the DI can the the resin need to be new.

PS-Am not puting you off like lads am just letting you know thats .

[Glossmax]

So this water filter you've made is not really a filter as it changes the properties of water and makes it dangerous to use? I am right here this is confusing me is it because of the resin you've used.
Basically are we saying Deionised water will strip waxes and lead to damaged paintwork?
If so what's the difference in the filtered water you can buy (the stuff mentioned in the Royal VXR detail with vxrmarc) or even that Flash car wash system.
Can't get my head around this one sorry.

[russell hayward]

Have to say I have never come across any issues with DI water in 15 years in the chemical business. However, I will have a word with my Chief Chemist as I'm not technical.

[russell hayward]

According to my Chemist, DI water is no more acid or alkali than tap water, so I don't think there is anything to worry about.

[Wozza]

I have to agree that I think there is nothing to worry about. Would window cleaners, aquarium keepers, etc etc use Di and RO water filtering systems if they really did something to the water to make it eat through denim and aluminium ? Does anyone have any factual evidence to back this up ? I have contacted ro-man to see if they can shed any light on this, I will post up the reply.

[Wozza]

This is the reply from ro-man.

Hi Warren
RO water can be more acidic as it has larger quantities of CO2 in it, as this passes through the membrane. However most of the big commercial car wash companies such as ARC use water that has been through a de-ioniser, so if it was that damaging to car paintwork I think they wouldnt use it. If you get a chance to call either Martyn or myself on ********, or if you give us your number and a good time to call we will call you; I think that will be the best way to discuss these issues and move forwards. The bottom line is that pure water, however it has been purified, is "hungry" and will leach material out of any corrodable substance that it is in long term contact with. As long as the paint on a car was sound with no bare metal showing, it should not do any harm as the water will not spend very long in contact with the paint.
Hope this helps
Best wishes
Neil

[Brazo]

^^very interesting!!

[Cliff]

Mm so is Russells filter sounding good?
Sounds like it could be a good route to go down, I see that RO-man sell the 20" cartridges so is it just a matter of finding a seller of the right resin?

Also Wozza if you do talk to them could you ask whether 'straight' tap water only should go through this type of filter as I use softened water through my outside tap but I do remember someone saying that softened water is not good for the resin.

Cheers

Cliff

[spookylee]

Hi All,
I am new to the forums, and have just found this thread. Very interesting stuff, I may say.

Just to add my 2p's worth.

RO (Reverse Osmosis) and DI ( De-Ionised) are not the same, but you end up with "purified water"

De-Ioniised wter is water that lacks common Cations (Ones with + charges, eg Na+ , Ca+, CU++ , Fe++ ) and Anions (ones with - charges eg Cl-, Br-), so you are left with OH- and H30+ (effectively H20 and H+)

Thie is achieved by passing the water through an Ion exchange resin. This is usually an organic polymer with a surface that simultaneously traps one type of ion, while releasing another, hence the name Ion Exchange. Resins are tailored for particular elements.

DI water can still contain, bacteria, endotoxins and organic compounds.

DI water can then be fractionally distilled to pruduce highly pure water.

RO water is produced by forcing the solvent (water) through an ultrafine membrane (filter) under pressure, leaving the slute (ion in the water) behind.

Chlorine will damage the membranes over time, and it will eventually "pass" the membrane, so I guess you could be producing a mildly acidic solution.

After reading everonyes comments in the thread, I would have no concerns over using DI, distilled or RO water on / in my car

Hope this helps, and thanks for the great info elsewhere on the site.

Lee

[gsd2000]

any updates?

[Brazo]

I did quiz my mother on this - an ex chemist and whilst she agreed that RO water is 'slightly more hungry' it would in no way harm your car over std tap water for what we use it for.

[Bigpikle]

did this ever get anywhere as a group buy suggestion?

Looking at one of these so if we can get it all co-ordinated then would be very interested....

[Glossmax]

I would be interested in one as well.

[TOGWT]

Total Dissolved Solids:
Are the total weight of all solids that are dissolved in a given volume of water, expressed in units of mg per unit volume of water (mg/L), also referred to as parts per million (PPM).

1. "Dissolved solids" refer to any minerals, salts, metals, cations or anions dissolved in water. This includes anything present in water other than the pure water (H20) molecule and suspended solids. (Suspended solids are any particles/substances that are neither dissolved nor settled in the water, such as wood pulp.)
2. In general, the total dissolved solids concentration is the sum of the cations (positively charged) and anions (negatively charged) ions in the water.
3. Parts per million (PPM) is the weight-to-weight ratio of any ion to water.
4. Conductivity is usually about 100 times the total cations or anions expressed as equivalents. Total dissolved solids (TDS) in parts per million usually range from 0.5 to 1.0 times the electrical conductivity.

Where do Dissolved Solids come from?
1. Some dissolved solids come from organic sources such as leaves, silt, plankton, and industrial waste and sewage. Other sources come from runoff from urban areas, road salts used on street during the winter, and fertilizers and pesticides used on lawns and farms.
2. Dissolved solids also come from inorganic materials such as rocks and air that may contain calcium bicarbonate, nitrogen, iron phosphorous, sulphur, and other minerals. Many of these materials form salts, which are compounds that contain both a metal and a non-metal. Salts usually dissolve in water forming ions. Ions are particles that have a positive or negative charge.
3. Water may also pick up metals such as lead or copper as they travel through pipes used to distribute water to consumers.

Why Should You Measure the TDS level in your Water?
The EPA Secondary Regulations advise a maximum contamination level (MCL) of 500mg/liter (500 parts per million for TDS). Numerous water supplies exceed this level. When TDS levels exceed 1000mg/L it is generally considered unfit for human consumption.

A high level of TDS is an indicator of potential concerns, and warrants further investigation. Most often, high levels of TDS are caused by the presence of potassium, chlorides and sodium. These ions have little or no short-term effects, but toxic ions (lead arsenic, cadmium, nitrate and others) may also be dissolved in the water.

TDS / Conductivity Meter –
http://www.digital-meters.com/TDS_Meter-p-1-c-309.html?gclid=CIKC3ZuHxIgCFShREgodDwvNLA

Information Resource- EPA Secondary Regulations – http//www.epa.gov

[Countdown]

A quick pic of my DI unit. I actually use mine for my nano marine tank (I need 0ppm water)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/countdown84/ROunit003Medium.jpg


Just so people know these arent expensive to buy premade, about the same money if you were to buy the parts seperately.:thumb:

[Countdown]

I should also add that its only economical to run a DI unit if your input water has a low PPM, mine is less than 50ppm.

If your water has a high ppm, then it will use a lot of the resin and deplete very quicky, and cost a lot of money on resin.

Personally i think if your input/tap water is much higher than 100ppm then i would be using a basic RO system.

[TH0001]

Any updates!?

[S-M]

This is the reply from ro-man.

Hi Warren
RO water can be more acidic as it has larger quantities of CO2 in it, as this passes through the membrane. However most of the big commercial car wash companies such as ARC use water that has been through a de-ioniser, so if it was that damaging to car paintwork I think they wouldnt use it. If you get a chance to call either Martyn or myself on ********, Neil


WOW, i must look for the "de-ioniser if my own car wash :lol:
never even relised i had one and i have ran one for 3 years
:lol:


sounds like a load of ******** to me

the fresh water enters the water tank, then is pumped to the rinse arches/wax arches, this is the same water tank that feed the toilet and office sink (the one we use for cups of tea LOL)

and the water will leave spot marks at the end if it does not have a final wipe down.

the recycled water section is passed through mesh filters and treated with bio chemicals to kill bacteria.

[GBCS]

Does anyone have any new thoughts on this?

Our local water supply is very hard, and leaves really bad water marks on paintwork if you don't get to it in time.

I need to do something.

[Neil_S]

Reverse Osmosis is the only real way to go in my opinion, take a look at ro-man.com, I run a 50 gallon a day unit. Perfect water everytime, filter change at 6 months.