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PWs: A total mystery!

16K views 53 replies 17 participants last post by  bigbruiser 
#1 ·
Granted, I have only read, re-read, and read again. and then started to read the whole lot again! And it's still a mystery!

I need a new PW. I have the very first Karcher K411 and it has served me well for many years. In fact, it has outlived me: my back is knackered and I'm past lifting the thing repeatedly to get all around the car. My first instinct is simply to replace the hose with one that is long enough - however, years ago I accidentally cross-threaded the hose to PW connection. The Karcher still does sterling work, but it's time to replace it.

It seems to me that there is either the Nelfisk40 or 50, or the Kranzel equivalent. Basically, it has to be on wheels, allow upgrades of the hose and lance, and of course the snow foam thingy goes without question. The hose has to be long enough to go all around the car (a Focus) without having to move the PW.

I'd be grateful for advice. Many thanks,
Andrew.
 
#2 ·
With suitable connections and a decent hose from Qwashers. Your pressure washer wouldn’t have to move at all bud. In my current situation my pressure washer stays within 12’ of water and electric connections. The adapted hose and lance goes the other 60’ :thumb:
 
#7 ·
With suitable connections and a decent hose from Qwashers. Your pressure washer wouldn't have to move at all bud. In my current situation my pressure washer stays within 12' of water and electric connections. The adapted hose and lance goes the other 60' :thumb:
Thanks - that sounds ideal: it's clear that the current set is not fit for purpose. Could i ask what you have and if I could afford it with £400 budget (can stretch to £500 if necessary).
 
#4 ·
Just for info, a 10 meter hose will get you comfortably from one front wheel around the back of the car to the other front wheel. I tend to put the pw at one end of the car and work down each side separately but when it comes up for replacement, I’ll definitely choose a longer hose of at least 15 meters, preferably 20.
 
#9 ·
Just for info, a 10 meter hose will get you comfortably from one front wheel around the back of the car to the other front wheel. I tend to put the pw at one end of the car and work down each side separately but when it comes up for replacement, I'll definitely choose a longer hose of at least 15 meters, preferably 20.
That's really helpful - thank you.

Did the hose come with the unit or was it an upgrade?
 
#5 ·
I've got a nilfisk that is a solid unit, its the E140.3-9 X-Tra....its outlasted any other PW I've had, infact once I had to go out after cleaning my car but left the unit on with no water supply attached and for whatever reason, I came back to a garage full of smoke and the unit running, still runs like a dream with no leaks :confused:

you can get a good array off additional attachments for it although I focused on getting the 90 degree attachment for arches and a wide angled fan nozzle to cover more area.
I got it from screwfix a good few years back but I've just took a quick look to see if the price was the same (£200) but I cant even see the e140 on their site anymore!

Only problem I have with the machine....well, hose... its the awful plastic material that loves to curl itself back up when your not looking and get knotted....so do as others have suggested and get a longer rubber hose from qwashers on ebay :thumb:
 
#10 ·
I've got a nilfisk that is a solid unit, its the E140.3-9 X-Tra....its outlasted any other PW I've had, infact once I had to go out after cleaning my car but left the unit on with no water supply attached and for whatever reason, I came back to a garage full of smoke and the unit running, still runs like a dream with no leaks :confused:

you can get a good array off additional attachments for it although I focused on getting the 90 degree attachment for arches and a wide angled fan nozzle to cover more area.
I got it from screwfix a good few years back but I've just took a quick look to see if the price was the same (£200) but I cant even see the e140 on their site anymore!

Only problem I have with the machine....well, hose... its the awful plastic material that loves to curl itself back up when your not looking and get knotted....so do as others have suggested and get a longer rubber hose from qwashers on ebay :thumb:
Thank you. The 140 certainly looks the business but the latest editions seem to have connectors that prevent hose upgrades...:wall:
Any way around it?
 
#6 · (Edited)
A good PW is heavy. My Kränzle 2160 is 40 KG. Why? Because the engine is solid and a powerful low RPM (way less annoying noise) runner and mostly, because the pumphead (the actual compression chambers on top of the engine etc) is all brass. That's one of the telltale signs of a quality PW. All Kränzle are that way, actual top end Kärchers still might (or use the cheaper Aluminium pump heads). Kärcher of old was a homemade, local solid brand. Kärcher now is cheap China mass production, with the cheap plastic pumpheads on all lower to midrange models, that are imho rubbish.

And that's why my Kränzle has a 15m Hose with a turnable drum.
 
#11 ·
Thank you that's very helpful: I suspect my Karcher is a reasonable unit as it's a very early model and very heavy (in my mind!)

I have a £400 budget (can stretch to £500 but would use a lot of banked good will from the Mrs which i have other plans for!) - would my budget buy a set up similar to yours?
 
#14 ·
Get the E140 from Amazon currently at £169.99 then spend another £50 odd on a 15m reinforced hose from Direct Hoses.
Lots of people seem to recommend Q washers but I emailed, text and phoned them and never got any response to any of it so quite happily took my money to Direct Hoses who were much more helpful.
 
#15 ·
I recently bought the Nilfisk 150 and must say it is some piece of kit.

I went for it over the 130/140 due to brass cylinder head, brass fittings, and 10m wire core hose which is anti-kink.

Plenty of power with 5m mains cable. Can vary pressure coming out of lance via end fitting.

I usually set it at the back of the car which allows me to walk round pretty much the whole car, though there will be times i habe to go round the other way. A Rover 75 is longer than you think!
 
#24 ·
I recently bought the Nilfisk 150 and must say it is some piece of kit.

I went for it over the 130/140 due to brass cylinder head, brass fittings, and 10m wire core hose which is anti-kink.

Plenty of power with 5m mains cable. Can vary pressure coming out of lance via end fitting.

I usually set it at the back of the car which allows me to walk round pretty much the whole car, though there will be times i habe to go round the other way. A Rover 75 is longer than you think!
Thanks for this - this is the direction my mind is working at the moment.

Is it possible to upgrade the hose in the future? Maybe 15metres?
 
#19 ·
I don’t mate. I’ve just checked (before you’d asked actually!) and it was through eBay and a while ago so my history doesn’t go back that far!
They had a few different types from memory but only a few were compatible with the hose reel. Like I said, I just emailed them and they confirmed which one fitted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#20 · (Edited)
If you're up for a wee bit of a project you could make something really cracking:

Annovi Reverberi 11 litres / min @ 110 bar pump and motor - £200 EDIT: The price excludes VAT and carriage at £22 so isn't quite as much of a bargain as it first appeared....sorry if I got anyone's hopes up!

20m rubber hose - £45

A gun, lance and nozzle setup of your choice - lots to choose from - say, £60

Rubber mains cable and plug - £22

Platform trolley - £20

Some suitable anti-vibration mountings for the pump and motor - £20 (not sure what size the mounting threads on the AR unit are, guessing M8/M10?)

IP66 junction box - £5

By my maths that comes to £372, the balance being for a suitable piece of plywood to mount the motor / pump and junction box to (with the anti-vibe mountings), whatever hardware is needed to attach that plywood to the platform trolley, and any adaptors needed to get the hose to attach to the gun

Easy to move, loads of performance, loads of hose, whatever gun and lance setup you want, plus a nice little project to build it all up.

(I completely understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea if you're looking for an out of the box solution, but the performance would be superb and being an AR pump and motor, you will be able to get spare parts, service etc so it should last you a long while).

Or just get the right adaptors etc to put a proper hose on the Karcher you've got - you mentioned it's cross threaded but with sufficient care it ought to be possible to get something to fit to give you a "new" outlet that a longer hose can be attached to.
 
#23 ·
If you're up for a wee bit of a project you could make something really cracking:

Annovi Reverberi 11 litres / min @ 110 bar pump and motor - £200

20m rubber hose - £45

A gun, lance and nozzle setup of your choice - lots to choose from - say, £60

Rubber mains cable and plug - £22

Platform trolley - £20

Some suitable anti-vibration mountings for the pump and motor - £20 (not sure what size the mounting threads on the AR unit are, guessing M8/M10?)

IP66 junction box - £5

By my maths that comes to £372, the balance being for a suitable piece of plywood to mount the motor / pump and junction box to (with the anti-vibe mountings), whatever hardware is needed to attach that plywood to the platform trolley, and any adaptors needed to get the hose to attach to the gun

Easy to move, loads of performance, loads of hose, whatever gun and lance setup you want, plus a nice little project to build it all up.

(I completely understand that this is not everyone's cup of tea if you're looking for an out of the box solution, but the performance would be superb and being an AR pump and motor, you will be able to get spare parts, service etc so it should last you a long while).

Or just get the right adaptors etc to put a proper hose on the Karcher you've got - you mentioned it's cross threaded but with sufficient care it ought to be possible to get something to fit to give you a "new" outlet that a longer hose can be attached to.
Thanks for this - I'm not great at DIY type things so preference would be as a complete out of the box solution with option of hose upgrade later if required.
 
#21 ·
@steelghost

I like projects :) I can't say anything about that Annovi Pumps quality/service support etc, but on paper it is quite nice with a good waterflow (dirt has to be washed off .. low flow cheap stuff doesn't cut it) and a brass pumphead. Not a low RPM one at 2880 but at that price, it's okay
 
#30 · (Edited)
For rinsing and clearing panels of solution and loosened muck, flow trumps pressure. 11 litres / minute @ 110 bar would be great for cars, particularly for snowfoam. Maybe not so great for eg removing graffiti from walls.

Edit: The Nilfisk manual for the P150 rates it at 9 litres per minute / 140 bar operating pressure. These are not specs that will disappoint anyone, but purely based on performance, I'd choose the AR combo if I was starting from scratch. That said it depends if you want a little project or something you can just pull out of the box and use. I like the idea of being able to get a motor and pump combo that suits me, and then choose the hose, lance etc separately.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Let's say it this way: For normal use (that we use) Flow is more important than extreme pressure. So a PW at 10 liters/minute with 110 bar is way, way better, than one at 4 liters/minute and 130 bar.

You will quickly notice, that PWs are sold by pressure to people usually. Like MPixels with cameras. But: Cheap products have total crap flow (4 liters per minute etc) and cheat with pressure, in that they always talk about maximum reachable pressure, which you'll never have in normal running, while quality brands like Kraenzle tend to talk about actual work pressure.

Personally, I'd never buy anything with less than around 7 liters/minute (my Kränzle 2160 Swiss version has 10, swiss here meaning it tops at 2.1 kW). You need that water out there that hits the dirt and it has to flow away and not just silly steam generation with so little water you can't get the dirt off.

But check the power required: Super high flow AND pressure is usually a 3+ kW machine. Which is why I have a special version to top at 2 kW (slightly less flow and pressure), required to keep my fuses unblown.
 
#37 ·
I know what you mean with the garage - it was built in 1988 with the original house build. I can just about get Fanny in (Fanny is the name of the car) but it is a real squeeze getting out of it (and I'm not a poker) so that clothing (esp coats) can damage the paintwork. As a result the garage is use for storage. The Nelfist will stay set up at the side of the tap. Job done:thumb:

PS wifey thinks I'm completely barking for ordering a £400 PW when there are PWs for less than £100. Anyone else have a partner who, as far as they are concerned, find the attraction of detailing a total f:censored:mystery?
 
#38 · (Edited)
Quality costs :) In theory, with the rbass head an all, the thing should last you quite a long while. Keep it maintained and you quite probably do not require a Kraenzle for decades of usage. Some people buy high heels for 400 so, what gives :p

PS: Did you check powerratings? At 2900W, a 10A fuse won't do at 220V. Just asking because where I live, 10A is the usual max (with somewhat rarer 16A).
 
#42 · (Edited)
You can set up any pressure washer as a static install, especially if you have a reel on the wall with a link hose to the PW outlet. This is pretty much what I've done with my Kränzle HD7.

That said, if you're intending to have a static install the bare pump and motor combos are particularly worth considering as you are not paying for wheels or even a chassis that you will not use. They also give you free choice of hose, gun etc as none are included.

35m of hose is enough that you will experience a certain amount of pressure drop, especially if a significant part of the hose is coiled up on the reel. That said, with a static install you don't always have much choice of where to put things. Look at DN 08 hose (ie with 8mm internal diameter) to minimise pressure drop.

Having a hose on a reel does make it much quicker to get the machine up and going, but be aware that you need to protect it from frost, even more than you would a normal hose pipe.

I don't think percymon has got his setup going yet, the combo he got seemed to be faulty and had to be sent back to Italy to be checked.
 
#43 ·
Thanks SG, will definitely be using DN08 hose. I will measure up but i reckon 30m will be plenty. The utility room is indoors (same room as washing / dryer), frost wont be an issue.

They seem a great pump, according to the site they are 36kg in weight on their own. Im surprised perymon had issues with his.

If i go down this route i will definitely be pairing it with a quality hose / lance combo.

Very interesting project to scheme about.
 
#45 ·
Just to add..

I may have had a bad example, but story to date..

plumbed up to high pressure hose via quick release coupling on outlet, standard garden hose inlet (very good mains pressure/flow). Plugged directly into garage 13A socket with no other electrical items on the same circuit. Pulled gun trigger to allow any through flow from mains pressure. Switched unit on with the gun trigger depressed - immediately tripped the 16A type B mcb in the consumer unit. Tried several times with same result. Disconnected hoses and switched on for a few seconds, managed to get the pump to run in a 'dry' state.

Decided to swap the MCB out for a type C, on basis the unit was pulling a high load on initial start up. Tried again , only to blow the 13A fuse in the mains plug. This would suggest the unit was pulling well over 20A, perhaps as much as 60A based on the immediate fuse failure

At this point i decided it was time to talk/send back to Exchange Engineering - who kindly arranged for TNT to collect the unit (bear in mind it's 22Kg so I had no cheap courier option if i was paying !). Unit arrived back at E-E on 9th Feb, they sent it straight back to AR in Italy for test. Still waiting to hear from them, no update as of last Friday.

I should say that on initial delivery to me the stop start pressure switch housing was damaged, E-E sent out a complete switch unit following day, from which i just needed to replace the housing, so did not have to distrurb any wiring or open up the switch panel.

I do wonder whether there may be an issue with the capacitor, but with little time to meddle with it, and the risk of invalidating any warranty with my intervention I took the 'return for test' option.

I'm not desperate to get the unit back, and i hope they find a fault with the unit that explains my experiences. If I was detailing on a daily basis then clearly I'd be in a different place.

It'd be easy for me to say 'I should have bought a Kranzle' but if it is a faulty unit / damaged in transit then that could happen to any make/model with courier mishandling; so for the time being I'm keeping an open mind.
 
#46 ·
Just to add..

I may have had a bad example, but story to date..

plumbed up to high pressure hose via quick release coupling on outlet, standard garden hose inlet (very good mains pressure/flow). Plugged directly into garage 13A socket with no other electrical items on the same circuit. Pulled gun trigger to allow any through flow from mains pressure. Switched unit on with the gun trigger depressed - immediately tripped the 16A type B mcb in the consumer unit. Tried several times with same result. Disconnected hoses and switched on for a few seconds, managed to get the pump to run in a 'dry' state.

Decided to swap the MCB out for a type C, on basis the unit was pulling a high load on initial start up. Tried again , only to blow the 13A fuse in the mains plug. This would suggest the unit was pulling well over 20A, perhaps as much as 60A based on the immediate fuse failure

At this point i decided it was time to talk/send back to Exchange Engineering - who kindly arranged for TNT to collect the unit (bear in mind it's 22Kg so I had no cheap courier option if i was paying !). Unit arrived back at E-E on 9th Feb, they sent it straight back to AR in Italy for test. Still waiting to hear from them, no update as of last Friday.

I should say that on initial delivery to me the stop start pressure switch housing was damaged, E-E sent out a complete switch unit following day, from which i just needed to replace the housing, so did not have to distrurb any wiring or open up the switch panel.

I do wonder whether there may be an issue with the capacitor, but with little time to meddle with it, and the risk of invalidating any warranty with my intervention I took the 'return for test' option.

I'm not desperate to get the unit back, and i hope they find a fault with the unit that explains my experiences. If I was detailing on a daily basis then clearly I'd be in a different place.

It'd be easy for me to say 'I should have bought a Kranzle' but if it is a faulty unit / damaged in transit then that could happen to any make/model with courier mishandling; so for the time being I'm keeping an open mind.
To bring things to a close, the item was returned to Exchange Engineering, who sent it stright on to Annovi-Reverberi in Italy. After several weeks of chasing, with no update coming my way from Annovi, E-E gave me a full refund.

I'd have prefered to have known whether there was an issue with the machine and, if so, had a replacement machine -on paper its just what i wanted !

So I'm currently back on my 15 yr old ,pulsing but all original, Karcher K2. My 15m of quality high pressure hose, two Suttner trigger guns, various lances, swivels and quick releases all sat idle for now.

I keep looking at the Karcher K4/K5 in their outlet store, but think i'll just keep hanging on for the next Kranzle deal and get a K7/122
 
#48 ·
Also looking at a new PW and weighing up a Kranzle or a petrol. I like the idea of the K7/K10 as its small and quiet but with a petrol I could get anything from 15-20 ltr/min.

Any reason people seem to be going for K7 over K10? I thought the 10 ltr/min of the K10 would be beneficial?
 
#49 · (Edited)
Also looking at a new PW and weighing up a Kranzle or a petrol. I like the idea of the K7/K10 as its small and quiet but with a petrol I could get anything from 15-20 ltr/min.

Any reason people seem to be going for K7 over K10? I thought the 10 ltr/min of the K10 would be beneficial?
K7 is able to run off a static water feed so can utilised stored rainwater or suck from a water tank in a valetting van. Its also lower power consumption so can be run from a mobile generator.

The K10 is a big step up in theoretical cleaning power with almost 50% more flow rate.

Firstly, check your water feed rate - to comfortably run the K10 from a hose feed you need at least 12l/minute hose supply (that allows for other items drawing water on the mains while washing the car, eg washing machine, house taps/showers etc.).

Secondly, check your normal domestic electrical circuit can handle the added power consumption of the K10 (it's not excessive by any means but if you have a std 13A ring to the garage and you have other electrical items plugged in it may be tight).

A few years ago the K10 was quite a bit more expensive than the K7, but that price gap has disappeared now.
 
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