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Old 08-03-2018, 07:39 PM   #1
hissinsid
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Haze advice please?

I'm looking for advice on why I am getting haze when polishing.

No matter what I do I still seem to get a very, very light haze (maybe its my eyes), specifically on black.

I have been playing around with all sorts of combos and can get paint flawless in terms of any swirls, no buffer trails, no micro marring etc. Most recently tried this: Sonax Perfect Finish 4-6 on a Hex Quantum white pad followed by DK Next Cut Finale on a Lake Country CCS black pad. I spread at speed 1 then increased to 3.5 on the DA (pro +).

I should point out I'm playing with a test panel to get it right so doesn't matter if I wreck it.

I just can't seem to get that absolute total haze free finish. Its not severe by any stretch and barely noticeable but its there. I don't know if its my technique, not breaking the compounds down enough, wrong pads or wrong speed.

Any pointers please?

Thanks

S
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Old 08-03-2018, 11:18 PM   #2
Sh1ner
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There could be many reasons. Soft paint could be one, understanding of the chosen polishes, etc etc etc
You still have the option of Hex black, blue and red pads to finish with if required but my guess is possibly the large throw of the Pro+ is causing your issue.
To my eyes a long throw DA pretty much always leaves that slight lack of clarity when finishing and the surface closely viewed. Dark colours are always worse.
It is like, it is, almost there but not quite. You know/feel it can be better.

A shorter throw 8mm will give again, in my experience and to my eyes, a better result but is still generally visible but less so.
I personally feel the DAS6 Pro gives a better finish than the Pro+ and in purely finish terms gives the Flex and Rupes machines a good run for their money but it could never do the day in day out work of the other machines.

With rotary you can make it glitter but it needs careful handling.

Are you able to borrow a shorter throw DA just to see if you get an improvement using the same polishes and pads? Or say try the Hex finishing pads with the Finale. You should see/feel a different result with each.
You really need some sort of reference as a starting point. Something with one variable that will allow you to make an assessment.

I never really find that speed makes too much difference. Unless at extremes or going way too fast with too much pressure and overheating the paint so when it cools it shrinks a little. If you go too slow it takes too long. The more of this you do the less time you waste.
Pressure can balance speed to a point but it is all about the best balance for the paint in hand. Machine speed, pressure and travel speed. There is an optimum to give the best result for any pad/polish combo but you will have to try a few to get the best result you can.
When finishing I find that most people move too fast. The final passes can often be much slower than you would think even with quite fast machine speeds.

I would generally say, at first and from gaining an understanding point of view, it is perhaps quicker to work with one manufacturers system rather than try to mix and match, Megs, Scholl, Menz, 3m,Carpro etc etc I think it is easier to isolate any issues.
Although not a complete system as such, I would give Hex and Megs a mention as well. The range of hex pads can be used with say M101 or M205 and for a given compound/polish/glaze there might be 3, 4 or 5 pads, hard to soft, that will work with it and each achieve a slightly different but visible result and with only one variable, again, it makes it easier to establish what brings what to the party.
With the four products you mention it would be very difficult to isolate what each one brings and make suitable adjustments without some sort of reference and to me, seems like random trial and error.

I see you are working on a test panel and that seems very sensible. Do small area and then assess. I have seen people complete whole vehicles making the same mess on every panel rather than trying to get the balance right first and then move on.

Once you get the balance to suit the paint that then dictates how long the job will take given the materials at hand.

Stick with it, the more you do the more experience you gain and that is really the key.
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:49 PM   #3
hissinsid
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Firstly, many thanks for such a comprehensive and considered response I really do appreciate it and you have made me think of options I hadn't.

So......


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1ner View Post
There could be many reasons. Soft paint could be one, understanding of the chosen polishes, etc etc etc
You still have the option of Hex black, blue and red pads to finish with if required but my guess is possibly the large throw of the Pro+ is causing your issue.
To my eyes a long throw DA pretty much always leaves that slight lack of clarity when finishing and the surface closely viewed. Dark colours are always worse.
It is like, it is, almost there but not quite. You know/feel it can be better.

Exactly this!

A shorter throw 8mm will give again, in my experience and to my eyes, a better result but is still generally visible but less so.
I personally feel the DAS6 Pro gives a better finish than the Pro+ and in purely finish terms gives the Flex and Rupes machines a good run for their money but it could never do the day in day out work of the other machines.

With rotary you can make it glitter but it needs careful handling.

Are you able to borrow a shorter throw DA just to see if you get an improvement using the same polishes and pads? Or say try the Hex finishing pads with the Finale. You should see/feel a different result with each. I have aa 6 Pro too so will try it and see what I get. I have it set up with 3" backing plate so will stick a 5" on.
You really need some sort of reference as a starting point. Something with one variable that will allow you to make an assessment. Great suggestion thanks, fortunately I've masked the test panel up into sections - I just need to remember the combos now!

I never really find that speed makes too much difference. Unless at extremes or going way too fast with too much pressure and overheating the paint so when it cools it shrinks a little. If you go too slow it takes too long. The more of this you do the less time you waste. Actually a really interesting point about speed and until recently didn't know about paint shrink.
Pressure can balance speed to a point but it is all about the best balance for the paint in hand. Machine speed, pressure and travel speed. There is an optimum to give the best result for any pad/polish combo but you will have to try a few to get the best result you can. I actually try not to apply too much pressure and do ensure the DA is DAing.
When finishing I find that most people move too fast. The final passes can often be much slower than you would think even with quite fast machine speeds. I do think I am rushing the finish now you highlight it and will slow down to assess if I am.

I would generally say, at first and from gaining an understanding point of view, it is perhaps quicker to work with one manufacturers system rather than try to mix and match, Megs, Scholl, Menz, 3m,Carpro etc etc I think it is easier to isolate any issues.
Although not a complete system as such, I would give Hex and Megs a mention as well. The range of hex pads can be used with say M101 or M205 and for a given compound/polish/glaze there might be 3, 4 or 5 pads, hard to soft, that will work with it and each achieve a slightly different but visible result and with only one variable, again, it makes it easier to establish what brings what to the party.
With the four products you mention it would be very difficult to isolate what each one brings and make suitable adjustments without some sort of reference and to me, seems like random trial and error. Excellent points and having been out of the hobby for a good few years one that had got lost in my head.

I see you are working on a test panel and that seems very sensible. Do small area and then assess. I have seen people complete whole vehicles making the same mess on every panel rather than trying to get the balance right first and then move on.

Once you get the balance to suit the paint that then dictates how long the job will take given the materials at hand.

Stick with it, the more you do the more experience you gain and that is really the key.
Thanks again for the great reply.

S
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