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Old 08-03-2018, 02:58 PM   #171
Alan W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fentum View Post
Right at the end of February, Steve contacted me to tell he had discovered another nasty. Owning this car is becoming increasingly like having a wayward teenage son - you just wait for the next letter or phone call and know with a sinking feeling that the little bugger has been at it again!

Steve had found a buckle in the chassis member where the IRS bolts on. Clearly, it's important that this gets rectified. The creasing from the rear shunt is now also more apparent with the boot floor out the way.

The frame and chassis measurements that Steve had taken previously were from the axle centre line which was good and hadn't changed, but the distance between the mounting bolts for the IRS is 6mm shorter on one side. (Incidentally, every problem with a Jaguar IRS seems to be measured in 6mm increments - it seems to be a magic number). Anyway, in non-engineering terms, one side has been squished up a bit

Squishing:



Peter
I may have missed it as this Thread is going at an epic pace (I'm struggling to keep up ) but can the 'squished' metalwork be pulled straight on a jig or frame Peter?

If not how does Steve plan to overcome the 6mm out of tolerance mounting locations for the IRS?

Alan W
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Old 08-03-2018, 03:56 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan W View Post
I may have missed it as this Thread is going at an epic pace (I'm struggling to keep up ) but can the 'squished' metalwork be pulled straight on a jig or frame Peter?

If not how does Steve plan to overcome the 6mm out of tolerance mounting locations for the IRS?

Alan W
Alan,

OK. I'm slowing down now because I'm up to date and only have some problem-solving issues to air before my next visit to the workshop next week.

That's the plan, as I understand it, and possibly looking at a bit of reinforcement welded in. We are more concerned with the chassis' structural integrity than Teutonic millimetric precision here.

As I have alluded to, 6mm isn't that much of an issue anyway, not least as all Jaguar IRSs that I've come across need that much shimming in one direction or another... it will just make mounting the bugger a pain.

I've spoken to other E Type owners, most of whom have told me that'd they'd have loved "only 6mm out" and that lump hammers, leverage (long bars) and strategically placed bolts are the usual way of getting the IRS back in. Neurosurgery it ain't.

Peter
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Old 08-03-2018, 04:18 PM   #173
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Temptation

Slightly OT, but I suggested this to my wife over lunch as a little side project to keep me busy while the E Type was being cut, welded and bashed:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sunbeam-A....c100290.m3507

Not least as I have a SBC looking for a home.

The answer is unprintable on a family-oriented website.

But if that shell is as good as he says it is and the paint is OK, it looks like a nice little project for someone on a lovely car. I won't say easy because they never turn out that way.

Peter
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Old 08-03-2018, 04:46 PM   #174
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Peter - you don't need two Glasurit Gun Metal cars - it's clearly not for you lol!
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Old 08-03-2018, 05:12 PM   #175
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Peter - you don't need two Glasurit Gun Metal cars - it's clearly not for you lol!
percymon,

you are my wife, you are stalking me on my forums, AICMFP!

Peter
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Old 08-03-2018, 09:47 PM   #176
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Musings on the electronic side of EPAS

I'm very grateful to forum members who have replied to me both in public on this thread and privately for their advice and encouragement. I'd like to presume upon you a bit more, please.

Recap

As I have posted, one of the sub-projects I'm tinkering with is the installation of Electronic Power Assisted Steering (EPAS) into the unassisted E Type.

Clearly, the steering is a safety critical aspect of any car's operation so any alteration is not undertaken lightly. In extremis, EPAS has the advantage over conventional power steering of not robbing the car of controllability if it cuts out, but it can induce funny artefacts and feedback from the wheels if it is not implemented properly.

For this reason, I do not propose using any of the common "spoofing" methods, normally associated with DIY Corsa EPAS implementations

Just to reassure those worried for my sanity, I want to resolve this for myself theoretically before wasting any time or money getting the auto-electrician who is wiring up the whole car to do the actual wiring. It is also worth bottoming out before attempting the mechanical installation.

So any input from those who understand car electronics better than me will be gratefully received (and accepted as a pointer (and not advice) and entirely at my own risk).

How it works

Let us assume for the moment (I know – the mother of all proverbials!) that the mechanical side of the EPAS sub-project is feasible.

In this post, I’ll set out my reasoning on the electronic dimension as it relates to retro-fitting the MGF EPAS gubbins into an E Type.

Below are the relevant MGF circuit diagrams (EPAS and Instrument Circuits), the only difference between MGF Mk1 and Mk2 being that the speed signal is picked up either from a reed switch (Mk1) or a transducer (Mk2):





From my research in the various MGF documents I have dug up, I think I understand from an electrical point of view how the MGF EPAS needs to be fitted (with the big caveat that my schoolboy physics is hazy, forty years old and was never very good in the first place!).

EPAS Control

The EPAS is controlled thus:

There are 2 signals which must be present and in range, and which are needed to stop the unit triggering error mode (thus switching off the EPAS motor and disengaging the EPAS clutch).

These are the engine speed data from the engine ECU (at plug C0159 wire 55 which also feeds the car’s tachometer) and the speed signal from the speed sensor at the gearbox.

It appears that engine RPM itself has no effect on the steering but when the EPAS ECU reads an engine speed signal of over 2500 rpm for 30 seconds without any signal from the gearbox speed sensor, the EPAS ECU triggers an error and disengages the EPAS as it diagnoses that there is a fault with either the engine speed sensor or gearbox speed sensor (or, of course, the wiring).

Applicability to my E Type

The E Type does not currently have a digital tacho, but the ECU or electronic controller I have for the gearbox should overcome that issue.

What we will need to do is establish whether the signals are in the same(ish) range as the MGF. While the values really don't need to be identical, they do need to be within a range to satisfy the EPAS ECU.

For the MGF, the signals are in a 1000-3000 Hz frequency range for engine speed, and in a 100-250 Hz range for road speed. As he is modifying the unit, I will ask the Jaguar ECU specialist for the engine speed frequency range fed out of the XJR6’s ECU and we should be able to ascertain easily what is being fed through the TCU once all the gubbins is installed.

If the frequency ranges are wildly out of kilter we will need to modify the reading, either artificially using a signal multiplier or mechanically by using a different source, so that the system can work as designed. Something like an off-the-shelf 555 timer kit from Maplin or a Hall sensor would probably do the trick. As I have indicated, I do not want to “spoof” the EPAS ECU but stepping data up or down in true relation to real values is a common function.

As my earlier post indicated, I have bought a unit which converts the speedo drive from an electronic signal to a cable driven one. I should therefore have a choice of signal to tap into. In any case, as early MGFs had both EPAS and cable driven speedometers, a second-hand speed sensor from one of those models should be capable of being adapted for the E Type.

However, for the life of me I can’t see why the electronic signal would not work and be an easier solution.

Power feed

I will also need to factor in that the power feed cable to the EPAS in the MG is chunky (3mm sq dia), presumably because it draws a lot of current? If I remember my electronics properly, for a given current, if the cable area is too small, the voltage drop at the unit would be sharp and this would trigger a EPAS ECU error? I assume I'd be wise transplanting the chunky cable and the rather beefy stand-alone fuse that came with the rest of the EPAS equipment?

Does all this make sense please?

Peter
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:45 AM   #177
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Did you consider fitting EZ Powwrsteering?
http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/25/Products.html

I’m only familiar with it from Harry Metcalf’s Youtube videos. He has fitted it to a couple of old Lambos.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:03 AM   #178
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Did you consider fitting EZ Powwrsteering?
http://www.ezpowersteering.nl/25/Products.html

I’m only familiar with it from Harry Metcalf’s Youtube videos. He has fitted it to a couple of old Lambos.
John,

Thanks, that is a helpful suggestion.

Yes, I have looked at it and a couple of British offerings, but I have two issues with the after-market kits.

First, I couldn't believe the cost of some of these after-market implementations.

Second, and more importantly, I am not casting aspersions on any after-market kit, but I haven't seen any evidence or even statement that the controller is taking the car's real signals to operate the unit as designed. This worries me.

It might be bad drafting in a non-native language (from a company known for its excellent products) but even EZ Powwrsteering says "To solve this, EZ Electric Power Steering has developed an interface that simulates the signals for engine speed, road speed and steering angle of the CAN bus and regulates the ECU." It does go on to say, however, that "[the] speed signal kan be realised artificially through GPS or through a speed sensor installed between the speedo cable and the speedometer." So there is ambiguity at least. I stand to be corrected.

As an experiment, it is not that costly (probably 7.5-10% of the cost of paying a firm to put one in).

Given that I have bought the TCU and speedo convertor anyway, the additional parts are: an MG steering column, ECU and loom bits including connectors which can be had at a breaker's yard for £25-50, the original 20 A fuse and bracket for £5-20 (but easy to DIY for less) and, if need be, a Hall Sensor and connector (e.g. BDO as used for after-market satnav units) for say another £30.

Yes, there is a bit of welding and fitting and the risk of trashing an E Type steering column in the process, but I have kept the original aside so I can revert to stock easily.

The torsion adjustments are relatively straightforward AIUI and cost-free.

Best

Peter
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:22 AM   #179
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wow stunning work from your bodyshop
This is a lot of work on that wonderfull car. I'm sorry if you already explained that, but you only discovered the real condition of the car after the job of the bodyshop or you was a bit aware of that ? That's unbearable to look at this patchwork

You may have to spend lots of money

But with the engine upgrade and new brake system, she will became a beautyfull car. Thank you to share that transformation with all of us

keep going on.
Alex.
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Old 09-03-2018, 11:49 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by fast_sebil View Post
wow stunning work from your bodyshop
This is a lot of work on that wonderfull car. I'm sorry if you already explained that, but you only discovered the real condition of the car after the job of the bodyshop or you was a bit aware of that ? That's unbearable to look at this patchwork

You may have to spend lots of money

But with the engine upgrade and new brake system, she will became a beautyfull car. Thank you to share that transformation with all of us

keep going on.
Alex.
Alex

Thanks - the full horrors only became apparent after the paint came off, despite my best efforts to get to the truth of it beforehand. At least I'll know it's all metal when it's done!

I'm going to see the car next week and will be discussing how to avoid this situation repeating itself.

My advice from friends who restore Alfas (no stranger to rust either) and who live on the Eastern Seaboard of the USA where there is salt in the air and a lot of humidity is not to rely on epoxy primers to seal the car but to use products like the POR-15 nickel oxide metal coating and then the POR-15 chassis paint to protect against rust internally and a truck bed liner on the underside. Followed internally by lashings of a high quality cavity wax - I'd guess like Dynax S50, repeated every two years or so.

They have an old Giulia they restored 15 years ago which does not have a sign of rust anywhere, despite being a daily driver.

Peter
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