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Old 24-09-2018, 06:29 PM   #1
Mclarxn
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BH Auto Wash - Stripping/degrading wax?

Afternoon all,

Hopefully someone can shed a bit of light on the matter as I'm stumped..

Bit of context;
- Car was stripped of all sealant/wax 2 weeks ago with Megs Wash + and 2 new coats of Sonax PNS was applied. No panel wipe or claying, just used Megs Wash + to test out its claims of sharing characteristics of claying and compounding. Megs Wash + worked wonders and stripped it bare.

- 1 week later washed the car; incredible beading at rinsing // BH Auto Foam applied and again incredible beading after rinsing // 2BM washed with BH Auto Wash and upon rinsing the beading looked like it had been degraded.

- Another week later washed the car; Beading seemed to have come back to around 90% of day one on rinsing // BH Auto Foam applied and beading looked unaffected // 2BM Washed with BH Auto Wash and beading looks more like primary school oval'ing now.

Both BH Auto Foam and Auto Wash were used to the recommended concentrations however I did notice that when washing with BH Auto Wash it was almost like just washing the car with water, almost 0 suds transferred to the car? I've read somewhere that Auto Wash is wax safe, but its the only thing that seems logical to me at the minute as that seems like the contributing factor.

Maybe its the lack of panel wipe before application and the LSP is degrading prematurely anyway? OR using the same MF wash mitt used with Megs Wash + to wash the car, even though it has been washed since?

Cheers in advance!
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Old 24-09-2018, 06:35 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleslie View Post
I take it you've got the dilution ratio spot on?
Yup, 7.5ml in a 15L bucket for Auto Wash and 4% PIR for the snow foam
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Old 17-10-2018, 12:40 PM   #3
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Well, its always possible you have a bad batch of wash/foam but MUCH more likely is that your test with Megs wash+ has revealed that its not all its cracked up to be.

My guess would be one of the following:
- Megs Wash+ didn't actually clean the panels bare and previous contaminants/lsp still remain to some degree
- Megs Wash+ removed the previous lsp etc but left a residue on the panels which is adversely affecting the PNS, either by inhibiting bonding or by directly degrading it

As has been said on here all too often, the quality of the end result is directly related to the quality of the prep. It seems like Wash+ is simply not sufficient to prepare a panel for new lsp. Had you done a light claying/paint cleanser and then a panel wipe after using wash+, perhaps you'd have gotten a better result.

Obviously you used just Wash+ as a test so it's not like you didn't know what you were doing, but it's still a pain that you might now need to redo the whole car at the expense of time/product.

It might also be a good idea to relegate that mitt you used with Wash+ to be just for stripping purposes now, just in case there is something still in it.
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Old 17-10-2018, 01:35 PM   #4
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Did you wash the MF wash mitt between uses? This would negate the wash mitt from being the culprit. If so i would put it down to Meg wash + not doing its job.
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Old 17-10-2018, 01:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olliewills View Post
Well, its always possible you have a bad batch of wash/foam but MUCH more likely is that your test with Megs wash+ has revealed that its not all its cracked up to be.

My guess would be one of the following:
- Megs Wash+ didn't actually clean the panels bare and previous contaminants/lsp still remain to some degree
- Megs Wash+ removed the previous lsp etc but left a residue on the panels which is adversely affecting the PNS, either by inhibiting bonding or by directly degrading it

As has been said on here all too often, the quality of the end result is directly related to the quality of the prep. It seems like Wash+ is simply not sufficient to prepare a panel for new lsp. Had you done a light claying/paint cleanser and then a panel wipe after using wash+, perhaps you'd have gotten a better result.

Obviously you used just Wash+ as a test so it's not like you didn't know what you were doing, but it's still a pain that you might now need to redo the whole car at the expense of time/product.

It might also be a good idea to relegate that mitt you used with Wash+ to be just for stripping purposes now, just in case there is something still in it.
Even still Ollie it should still last more than a few weeks.

I didn't think BH AutoWash was all what is was cracked up to be either to be honest.

I did however notice on the weekend that Adams Ultra Foam Shampoo does not affect the hydrophobic properties at all! Fastastic shampoo!

Rob
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Old 17-10-2018, 02:50 PM   #6
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Thank you all for the comments.

I agree, maybe megs+ did leave a abit of residue behind which could adversly affect the bonding/durability of the PNS but I'm surprised by how significant this affect may have been. By the looks of things the megs+ did however strip any wax I had as the water covered the surface afterwards and wasnt going anywhere, but again the contaminants might have still been lurking.

Chances are i will be stripping it all again soon, using the megs+, BUT panel wiping before application of any LSP to hopefully rule out that idea.

The only thing that struck me was the before and after results using BH AW as, in my eyes, it looked like it degraded it which I cant imagine was the case. I will continue to use it just as a general test and if I dont agree with it Im sure theres plenty of other good shampoos out there to try!

The mitt was washed inbetween washes but think its time to demote that mitt to the stripper mitt () and get a dedicated cleaning one.



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Old 17-10-2018, 03:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob D 88 View Post
Even still Ollie it should still last more than a few weeks.

I didn't think BH AutoWash was all what is was cracked up to be either to be honest.

I did however notice on the weekend that Adams Ultra Foam Shampoo does not affect the hydrophobic properties at all! Fastastic shampoo!

Rob
To be honest, the PNS is probably still on there since LSP generally lasts far longer that it's initial perfect beading qualities. Just because your beads aren't perfectly round anymore doesn't mean the LSP has suddenly vanished in its entirety.

That lovely glossy top layer of LSP could have been degraded by anything including:
- A bad batch of autowash
- The shampoo being allowed to dry on the panel
- An imperfect final rinse leaving residue
- Heavily contaminated road spray or airborne contaminants
- A period of heavy rainfall, particularly of the acidic kind

There's also no mention of drying technique yet either, so it's not clear if a good quality drying towel was used or if any drying aids were added.

Adams AF may not have affected beading on your LSP under your wash conditions, but I'm not sure how relevant this is to Mclarxn. My own experience of using BHAF & BHAW as my weekly wash combo tells me that BHAW doesn't visibly affect beading, but again, that is on my car, with my local water/weather, driving conditions and LSP setup of AG SynthSeal topped with DSW. Both the Adams and BH stuff are rated very highly in the community so I'd be doubtful that either of them would damage LSP so drastically.

Best bet for Mclarxn might be to wash half the car with BHAW and half with Adams or another good shampoo and see if the BHAW is noticeably worse after rinsing. If there's still a problem, perhaps he does indeed have a bad batch of AW or for some reason AW doesn't like PNS.
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Old 17-10-2018, 03:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olliewills View Post
To be honest, the PNS is probably still on there since LSP generally lasts far longer that it's initial perfect beading qualities. Just because your beads aren't perfectly round anymore doesn't mean the LSP has suddenly vanished in its entirety.

That lovely glossy top layer of LSP could have been degraded by anything including:
- A bad batch of autowash
- The shampoo being allowed to dry on the panel
- An imperfect final rinse leaving residue
- Heavily contaminated road spray or airborne contaminants
- A period of heavy rainfall, particularly of the acidic kind

There's also no mention of drying technique yet either, so it's not clear if a good quality drying towel was used or if any drying aids were added.

Adams AF may not have affected beading on your LSP under your wash conditions, but I'm not sure how relevant this is to Mclarxn. My own experience of using BHAF & BHAW as my weekly wash combo tells me that BHAW doesn't visibly affect beading, but again, that is on my car, with my local water/weather, driving conditions and LSP setup of AG SynthSeal topped with DSW. Both the Adams and BH stuff are rated very highly in the community so I'd be doubtful that either of them would damage LSP so drastically.

Best bet for Mclarxn might be to wash half the car with BHAW and half with Adams or another good shampoo and see if the BHAW is noticeably worse after rinsing. If there's still a problem, perhaps he does indeed have a bad batch of AW or for some reason AW doesn't like PNS.
I agree... I rate some Bilt Hamber products highly but never rated AutoWash. All Idris opinions of course.

Like you mentioned, anything could of destroyed it.

Rob

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Old 17-10-2018, 03:42 PM   #9
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I'm without doubt PNS still remains on the surface as the water behaviour alone is significantly different to that of unprotected paint, however I was just curious as to why the water behaviour changed so drastically from before to after the wash. Maybe its wash+ residue embedded in the mitt, who knows..

The next few washes will just add to my experience with BH AW and I suppose I will make the decision from there. Nontheless I cant fault the cleaning abilities of BHAW.

I appreciate all responses and ideas as it only helps me figure out what is going on hah!

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Old 17-10-2018, 08:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Rob D 88 View Post
I agree... I rate some Bilt Hamber products highly but never rated AutoWash. All Idris opinions of course.

Like you mentioned, anything could of destroyed it.

Rob

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I'm the same, in general terms across their entire product range I'd say BH are one of perhaps the top 3 manufacturers out there for reliability and products that do what they say they do.

Having said that, auto-balm I find to be just 'okay' and while I used to love DSW for its durability, and still do I suppose, there are times when I take it out of my kit bag and think 'if only it was less fussy about how it is applied'.

This winter I'm going try a pot of either fusso or 1000P as my winter protection instead to maybe save myself some hassle.
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