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Taller beads- possible?

49K views 32 replies 21 participants last post by  Ceralab 
#1 · (Edited)
A quick simple question but to increase the contact angle of the beads, therefore resulting in taller beads, would the oils or wax be the biggest contributer to this? I've always had good beadage but seem quite 'short' compared to some professional waxes I've tried.

I know this doesn't determine what is a good wax or not, it's just something I thought could be worth having a play to achieve taller beads but unsure where the focus should be.

For reference, this is what I'm getting but wanted to try getting the beads to stand taller:





 
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#5 ·
Of course I do, I measure each and every one to ensure consistent height 😁

As above, it was more out of curiosity as to how it is possible to increase contact angle, thus showing increased surface tension (if my science is accurate there ;) ) which means less 'bond' to the surface which in turn reduces the friction between the water and panel.

So there is a certain practical gain to be had from making the beads taller, just curious as to how this is actually achieved as I enjoy the experimental side of wax making so if I know what element to focus on then I can test this accordingly.
 
#6 ·
I guess contact angle will be a direct corrolation to hydrophobia? Increase one you;ll increase contact angle. I'm not sure how that affects bead heights though.

Anyway I think most oils are really carriers and evaporate off once applied to the paint? So they should not make a big difference.
 
#7 ·
Yes, I'm thinking now that 'surface tension' possibly isn't quite accurate when describing contact angle, possibly. I don't claim to be a scientist lol so I may have used the wrong terminology and maybe hydropobia/hydrophobic may have been more accurate. :)
 
#12 · (Edited)
You have three forces acting here.
Cohesion (the water sticking to itself), adhesion (the water sticking to the surface), and gravity (trying to push the bead flat).
Can't change gravity, can't change cohesion without adding something to the water, or cooling it to nearly freezing point. So the only way to change the shape of the bead is to decrease adhesion to the surface. Ie, by using a really good wax,
 
#14 ·
I've never tried to mix any of my own waxes, so I have no idea what you could mix successfully. I used to coat my bicycle frame and bars in WD40 before the winter, I've used graphite grease in bearings, telfon spray on hinges, and silicone grease spray on various things.
WD40 obviously wouldn't work in a wax, although I did hear that it was mostly paraffin, so.....
Graphite is probably going to be dark grey so not a lot of good,
No idea where you'd get teflon from or how you'd mix it into a wax,
Same goes for a suitable silcone.
 
#16 ·
No not really. Had a little play with the blend by rebalancing oils and solvent and has maybe helped a tiny bit, but could just be the placebo effect. Really not sure if it is possible without additives or not as feeling like I've pushed it as far as I can with just wax, oils and solvent though I'll keep trying as I'm a determined bugger haha.
 
#19 ·
@ Soft99 we use a specifically designed synthetic polymer for hydrophobicity, and I doubt you'll be able to beat our team of scientists with some household products or natural oils (umm, let me know if you do haha)

Your best bet is searching for commercially available polymers made for hydrophobicity, and with appropriate solubility in your solvent, and/or melting point for your equipment. Also sufficient hardness for durability.

If you can't get small enough amounts, try asking a suitable friend to order a 'sample' through their business. You might even get it for free haha
 
#24 ·
Contact angle has a lot to do with the texture of the paint work. A very smooth surface will sheet well and bead the water that is left.

Look at nano sealants etc, the actually cause a chemical reaction which creates nano tubes on the paint.

Those nano tubes push the water up off the paint but also contain it in the bead so you get taller beads.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Contact angle has a lot to do with the texture of the paint work. A very smooth surface will sheet well and bead the water that is left.

Look at nano sealants etc, the actually cause a chemical reaction which creates nano tubes on the paint.

Those nano tubes push the water up off the paint but also contain it in the bead so you get taller beads.
As I was reading through this thread I started to wonder about the prep?

This may be complete drivel, but stay with me......

If we go to microscopic levels then the clear coat will look like a mountain range.

With quality prep (polishing and/or glazing) it'll look rather more like some rolling hills.

If water adhesion is the issue then rolling hills will be less adhesive than mountain ranges giving better sheeting and beading (as above :thumb:).

Maybe the professional product is better at turning the mountain ranges to rolling hills than the normal one?

And, given that pretty much every square inch of paintwork will be microscopically different to the next, is that why we see differences in beading across the same panel?

Just some chuck 'em out there thoughts to brighten up a dull and dismay Saturday afternoon. :) :wave:

Andy.
 
#28 ·
Here’s one to pickle your head. Higher contact angle doesn’t mean lower roll of angle.

What is roll of angle? Loosely, lower roll of angle means less force to get red bead to roll off. So lower speed if you’re driving.

We’ve tested one popular ceramic which has high contact angle but almost double the roll of that would be normal. Basically, it looks fab but it’s water spot central because those beads are really not moving easily!
 
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