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What the health (documentry)

18K views 21 replies 12 participants last post by  SausageStick 
#1 ·
Just watched this on Netflix a real eye opener for me more on the side of what happens in your body what's people's views on this ?

As of today I'm going to try to only eat plant based not Vegan as such because I am pro farming, going to give it a few weeks and see if I feel a difference.

Anyone else on here plant based foods only ?

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#3 ·
We prepare and cook every meal. So know what's in what we're eating.
I suppose it does help we have a tame market trader, so get gratis or very cheap vegetables :D
Caulis, cabbages, carrots, onions, spuds, pumpkins you name it.

I don't think I could give up meat though, I like a slab of rare steak too much.

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#9 · (Edited)
Cows eat plants ...........does that make you vegetarian?

We only eat home cooked, and no processed food, good mixture of different proteins in meat, fish and pulses.
Man has been eaten meat for 1000th of years, it doesn’t make it bad, even our teeth are designed to eat a mixture of meat, grains and plants.

I don’t believe in diets where you leave stuff out, I think personally a good variety of different foods with everything in moderation, you will be healthy and live long.

My grandad was 85 when he died, never been ill, and use to eat white bread with lard and sugar.

Everything is a hype nowadays what is good for your today, is bad tomorrow.

Lifestyle is what keep you alive, no stress, or doing things to fast, no time to relax kills you
Country’s where they live a bit slower, people (while eating “unhealthy “) seem to live much longer.
( I noticed in Ireland (Donegal) Greece, Spain, Italy that their average age is higher than us.
And they eat meat, fat, bread etc. So it cannot be that.

Around me a lot of people have died very young, while eating “healthy” exercise a lot etc.
Once somebody said “a heart is like an engine and can only beat a certain amount” I don’t know if true, but it plays in my mind when I push my exercise to maximum levels.
 
#10 ·
Vegan for nearly 2 years, primarily because of the horrendous treatment of animals in the food industry. When it comes to our treatment of animals for the use of food, humanity's reasoning power and concerns about fairness plummets.
Some discussion on this thread as to the pros and cons about health (B12 found in animal products are given to them as supplements so vegans just cut out the middle man), but if you are vegan then it is about stopping the exploitation and murder of the most innocent beings on this planet, which in turn also saves this planet that animal agriculture is rapidly destroying.
Anyway I'll just get off this soap box ;)
Nothing tastes as good as vegan feels.
 
#11 ·
Your username is far too ironic :p

That's where I stand on this issue. I have no issue with eating meat and don't think the argument about a meat free diet being healthier holds much water (happy to be proven wrong, but as I see it, there isn't the large population based data out there controlling for important confounding effects to conclusive say either way).

However the treatment of animals for mass production of meat is horrendous. It's massed produced meat that I disagree with.

However, despite the logic, I struggle to give it up entirely. I will one day make the necessary steps to at least dramatically cut down on my meat production, and I think this is a much more achievable goal that could have a very real impact on the issue.
 
#12 ·
Apologies in advance as I don't know if external links are allowed, but I would encourage anyone in any doubt as to conditions these poor babies have to suffer to watch landofhopeandglory.org which is all recent footage shot in the uk of factory and free range farms.
Happy to answer any questions about it or any thing else about the dreaded "V" word
 
#13 ·
An interesting watch.

People have different belief systems. If you think milk and processed foods are bad you will stay off them, others will think your a lunatic and why would shops sell food that is potentially killing us. I think one thing that is bad is the chemicals that are sprayed on them.

You can also look at what's in tap water, the chemicals in the air. The stresses of working harder for less and financial burden. Everything seems to be killing us.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I've worked in and agriculture for years, since I was about 12 probably.

Only small segments of the industry give me a lot of cause for concern. I am not at all interested in factory farming and simply do not buy cheap skate sausages from Denmark or whatever.

If you are that adamant about animal welfare, then either do not buy it, or do as we do, and seek out foods whose providence you know of.

It is the demand for cheap mass-market foods that has shaped the industry we have today.

Regarding how ethical various foodstuffs are, look at how the demand for corn and soya products is driving deforestation in various parts of the world so they can obtain land to grow them. It is not a clear cut plant vs animal debate in my mind and has never been so.

For example, you are quite at liberty to eat lamb because the vast majority of sheep in the UK live out on land that is basically unsuitable for cultivation. As such they are merely converting grass into meat. Tough to find a more environmentally friendly way of obtaining protein than that.

Furthermore, the wide range of domestic animals that man has reared and bred through the ages exist only because of our dependence on them. Without them, not only would they be basically extinct, but vast areas of the UK would be left unused. There would also be mountains of lower end feed grains and by products that would have to be burnt or simply put into digesters. Oilseed by products, the citrus industries, brewing and milling, all of these product by products which are fed to livestock. What else would you do with hundreds of thousands of tonnes of wheatfeed left over from milling flour?


Lastly, the landofhopeandglory is well known within the industry. I am sure there is much heartfelt torment when people look at pig farrowing crates. What people do not realise is that you do not keep a sow in a farrowing crate for long, it is to protect the piglets from being crushed by their sow. If you have ever worked around pigs, you will know what a pig in distress looks like.

There are unquestionably some terrible farms and people working on them about, it is the job of trading standards and the like to root these characters out and prosecute them. No farmer I know of would continue in the job if they kept animals in some of the conditions depicted. But I must stress that not all your food is produced in such a way.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I've worked in and agriculture for years, since I was about 12 probably.

Only small segments of the industry give me a lot of cause for concern. I am not at all interested in factory farming and simply do not buy cheap skate sausages from Denmark or whatever.

If you are that adamant about animal welfare, then either do not buy it, or do as we do, and seek out foods whose providence you know of.

It is the demand for cheap mass-market foods that has shaped the industry we have today.

Regarding how ethical various foodstuffs are, look at how the demand for corn and soya products is driving deforestation in various parts of the world so they can obtain land to grow them. It is not a clear cut plant vs animal debate in my mind and has never been so.

For example, you are quite at liberty to eat lamb because the vast majority of sheep in the UK live out on land that is basically unsuitable for cultivation. As such they are merely converting grass into meat. Tough to find a more environmentally friendly way of obtaining protein than that.

Furthermore, the wide range of domestic animals that man has reared and bred through the ages exist only because of our dependence on them. Without them, not only would they be basically extinct, but vast areas of the UK would be left unused. There would also be mountains of lower end feed grains and by products that would have to be burnt or simply put into digesters. Oilseed by products, the citrus industries, brewing and milling, all of these product by products which are fed to livestock. What else would you do with hundreds of thousands of tonnes of wheatfeed left over from milling flour?

Lastly, the landofhopeandglory is well known within the industry. I am sure there is much heartfelt torment when people look at pig farrowing crates. What people do not realise is that you do not keep a sow in a farrowing crate for long, it is to protect the piglets from being crushed by their sow. If you have ever worked around pigs, you will know what a pig in distress looks like.

There are unquestionably some terrible farms and people working on them about, it is the job of trading standards and the like to root these characters out and prosecute them. No farmer I know of would continue in the job if they kept animals in some of the conditions depicted. But I must stress that not all your food is produced in such a way.
Very good statement, very well informed, eating plants only doesn't protect the planet, never mind species who are killed in the creating of more and more groing plots.
Responsible farming is the way forward and there are many farmers who do good and sustainable work.
If you buy form these places (i know it comes at a price and its defiantly much dearer than the supermarket stuff) you support a sustainable future.

The other point is waste, we waste still much to much good food, in many countries people don't buy food on appeareance, but on taste.
If you look on the south European markets (for example) people dont buy the perfect round red tomatoes but the ones who are full of flavour, and a little mark get cut out.
If we wasted 50% less, we could have more sustainable farms around the world.
 
#16 ·
The level of waste incurred in the food chain today is criminal and is of course entirely down to supermarkets.

Tonne after tonne of perfectly edible product never gets near a supermarket because of perceived imperfections or 'gone too far', flowering salads etc.

All gets chucked in digesters or fed to animals or simply ploughed back in.

This doesn't even scratch the surface with the waste incurred after the product has been on display in the shop. I dread to think how much of that goes on.

If anyone has any specific questions about the landofhopeandglory please point me to link and a time in a video and I will explain them. I have no doubt you will see dead animals or ones that should be euthanasied immediately. On the majority of well managed units, you will not see this to any extent, the staff keep watch for this kind of thing.

The mistreatment of animals is entirely the work of sadists who should be prosecuted for it.

My wife is a farm vet and as part of your RCVS registration you have the professional obligation to report problems with welfare to the relevant authorities. Vets can and do shop people to trading standards, DEFRA and the RSCPA from time to time.
 
#17 ·
Huew did a series on waste, it is quite evident that supermarkets literally own food, as they can dictate production and whats wasted. There isn't a food shortage, there is a control problem and it disgusts me

I do admire vegans, I respect people who see something through based on a moral calling. Its been made far too easy for us to be ignorant if we choose to be, about whats happening. I firmly believe all meat eaters (of which I am one) should be made to kill, and dress at least one animal in their life so they fully appreciate both where it comes from, and how much is wasted.

Plant based diet is not at present sustainable for everyone, we need a more 3 dimensional view to growing for that too happen. And a lot of animals and insects die in the harvesting of those plants, plus whatever naturally grows on that land needs to be removed and animals can no longer use that to live, so it does need addressing imo. But lets be honest, is anything in this world perfect? Any awareness to animal cruelty and waste is a step closer regardless of your diet choice
 
#18 · (Edited)
Just to pick up on a few points on these on the whole well thought out replies.
Firstly the mention of deforestation for production of soya, 90% of soya is fed to livestock and personally soya is a tiny part of my plant diet, leading on from that livestock eat up to 75% of grain grown on this planet, there is currently enough food produced to feed 14 billion people yet we choose to feed vast amounts to animals to eat them. Currently the USA use 41% of its land exclusively for grazing livestock which equates to 800 million acres. The waste of our planets finite resources is astronomical when it comes to animal agriculture. Another little stat is beef production uses 89% of agriculture energy but only provide 8% of the food we eat. A totally unsustainable farming practice. Also on the point about eating high welfare/organic meat being more sustainable, unfortunately nothing could be further from the truth. To meet the demand of current meat production we would need a planet 4 1/2 times the size of the only one we've got.
If your really concerned about the conditions and lives of livestock then just choose not to eat dead body parts which are proven to be detrimental to our health on many levels.
 
#19 ·
A lot of the study I have read on meat being bad for us is quite biased. For example the vilification of red meat is rarely done on equal diets, with added meat. So what I mean is a vegan diet, and a vegan diet WITH meat. Its usually a plant based diet compared to a crappy western diet of rubbish meat with no fruit and veg and a sedentary life style. But they blame the meat not the diet as a whole. High sugar, high fructose corn syrup etc etc.

I like a lady called dr Ronda Patrick. Her knowledge on using healthy fats, cholesterols etc and meal prep is just amazing. Too much unless you can keep revisiting it lol
 
#21 · (Edited)
A huge volume of the world's crop production is in low quality feed grains, totally useless for human consumption. There is only so much wheat and corn you can eat and the vast majority of oilseed crops are useless for human consumption as well.

Grazing livestock is of no environmental consequence. It is low impact. Even if you go adding nitrogenous fertilisers into the equation, it's still low impact. They literally turn grass into food. I agree that very large feedlot operations are not environmentally friendly, particularly when you begin to import a lot of grains produced abroad. But I would point out that a lot of developing countries are making a living from producing some of this product, what alternative do we provide them if we stop them from producing low end food products?

As for eating dead bodies, I have no qualms whatsoever with this, it suited our ancestors just fine so I think we merely have a difference of opinion on that score. I've visited slaughter houses as part of my academic studies, I've eaten game I have been given and would do it again. I refuse to keep my own pigs or the like because there is no justification for it. Once we have moved I can envisage keeping our own hens again, but I have no intention of killing them for meat.

There is no shortage of food on Earth as far as I can see. The reason people go hungry is down to regional problems with distribution more than anything else. I do however think that the very low prices for foods, the drive toward mass production and taking it for granted all has to stop.

I am not a dietician but I would point out that for the first time in history even the very poorest can now afford to grow fat. Not many generations ago only the very wealthy could afford to do this. Malnutrition and starvation will kill you a lot faster than too much cholesterol. It is still something of a marvel to me, when I visit a supermarket and see virtually every kind of fresh product available all year round.

Regarding the issue of population growth, I don't believe the Earth has any need to house 14 billion people. I think 9-10 billion will be the peak, by which point all the economies in the world will have become wealthy enough to realise that they don't need to breed. On that score, it is not food production that concerns me (food production in the UK could be increased 30% in a stroke but it has been hamstrung politically for decades) but the supplies of potable water and also energy that are the biggest concerns. There is a strong correlation between energy use and prosperity. Much of the world still has no running water, sanitation or electricity supply. Currently the cheapest way of obtaining the latter is by burning coal.

EDIT, someone mentioned palm oil. It is rather more efficient to produce oil from oil palm than it is to produce it from things like oilseed rape. The same is true of sugar cane vs sugar beet. This would mean further importation of such products, also you must consider that places like Indonesia may not take kindly to being told what they can or cannot do with their land, as they point out that much of Europe was similarly deforested to provide land for food production, only rather longer ago.
 
#20 ·
I respect everybody’s believe, do what you want, but I will always be a meat and fish eater and lover.
We eat plenty times vegetarian to eat a balanced and healthy diet.

We try to get ethical sourced food, avoid palm oil like the pest.
Support farms with an ethical and caring approach to animal care, and respect for nature and natural resources.

I love my dairy and cheeses, will never give that up.
A good balanced farm is the best for environment and for protection of our future.

If I look around here in the North West, many farms are run properly, most farmers respect their land and livestock, but the growing pressure of the supermarkets to reduce prices (consumer pressure, we you and me want it cheap) makes it difficult.

Times are gone like the in the seventies and eighties when we had “butter mountains” , milk flushed away, and meat rotting in storage.
It’s all a bit more balanced, now get it more sustainable, but if we are willing to pay the premium we could heading the right direction.

As said everybody has their own believe, and both sides have their own agenda.
Both sides are very creative with their numbers and point the fingers.
I don’t feel guilty if i eat a steak, or a chop and never will be.
And yes I have been brought up in the time that home slaughtering was a common thing.
I do remember the pig hanging upside down on the ladders, and peeling the “lead” out of the hare.

The thing I don’t understand is why vegetarians and vegans want products that looks like meat, taste like meat and smells like meat.
Where is that about?
I use to be involved with a factory in Brno, where we delivered soya in the 80’s for the production of vegetarian burgers......really?
 
#22 ·
There are many points I would like to pick up on but at the moment am a little pushed for time and writing on my phone does my head in, but someone mentioned bias towards plant based foods in the documentary. I've left a link to a site which collates all medical studies in an unbiased way and shows the results. It's an interesting read if nothing else.
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/
As a side note if you visit http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/facts/ it lists all the sources of information and time of the film that information was used to try and stop the animal industries and their many supporters trying to debunk it. The animal food industries are like the tobacco industry of the 50's "doubt is their product"
 
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