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Rinseless washing over winter - long term test

112K views 153 replies 28 participants last post by  fatdazza 
#1 ·
All righty then...if you followed this thread http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=5220541#post5220541 over the last couple of days you know whats about to go down.

I will try to create a long term testing of rinseless washes over the 2016/2017 winter to find out how much damage they can inflict on the car. But its gonna be on my terms and rules. I'm not a idiot...Im not gonna slap a wet sponge on a gritty or muddy surface and say its safe for paint. I know its not and some common sense and caution will be used here. I don't live in a water restricted area, I have the luxury of using water, electricity, a PW with a foam lance, snow foam, APC, and other what you call normal wash stuff at my disposal.

I have been using different rinseless shampoos for the last 2 years and have adopted a routine / a method you might say that suits me. Over this time I have found their limits and know how far I can go with them but Ill still lay in some ground rules at the start just so you wont be dissapointed later on.

OK the rules:
1. We will be observing only one panel. Its gonna be the driver door. I have already winter prepped my car last weekend. I wont do it again. That is why I will do this on one panel. Besides its easier to watch for swirls on a smaller area.

2. I will correct the panel prior and protect it with LSP of my choice. I will try to photograph and video document it the best I can to show there are no swirls (there might be some deeper RIDS left at some places). Just a note...Im not a photographer and dont have a pro camera but I will do the best I can.

3. When I drive I keep my distance from other cars in front so they don't throw road film on my car. My daily trips are usually short and I don't do many miles on the highway. The mileage will be documented from wash to wash (if I don't forget).

4. Ill wash it when I feel like it...It can be after a week, after a month or after a day if I decide to.

5. I normally pre spray the panel with the rinseless solution but its gonna be winter meaning ice and snow and salt so I will use my judgement and asses the car prior washing and react accordingly. This means if I think its too dirty I will use the PW and maybe even snow foam. I will document this as I go. I also normally use the 2bm where I have the wash solution in one bucket and rinse water in the other that is also equipped with a grit guard. For the wash media I use a waffle shaped soft sponge. For anyone asking its similar to the one that Serious performance sells, I just get it elsewhere.

6. I will use different rinseless shampoos over this period of time. I like rinseless washing and I like trying different rinseless shampoos. At the moment I am using Optimum No-rinse, Wolfs chemicals mean green and lately Surf city garage rinse free wash & wax (Jesus fu..k they really gotta find a new name for the last one...its too freeking long). In the near future I just might buy CG rinse free and Surf city professional rinse free (although I think its not much different to the one I have) as they popped up at a dealer in my country.

7. I will dry it with a microfiber drying towel. I will vary between Martin cox waffle, CG miracle dryer and Gyeon silk (the small one).

8. I will use as QD or spray sealant as a drying aid. At the moment I am using OPT QD, OPT opti seal, OPT ONR+OCW mix and Autobrite project32.

9. I will look for swirls with a pocket flashlight I use for correcting paint and try to photograph them or make a video about it at least once a month.

10.If you have any suggestions I am open for a discussion but will not necessarily consider them all.

There you go...10 simple rules.

Let us begin shall we?

First of. Wash the car with ONR




Claying was skipped (I did it last week) so I skipped straight to polishing. I used my DA machine with Optimum hyper polish and orange and white CG hex logic pads. The residue was removed with a ONR soaked microfiber towel and panel wiped with OPT paint prep.





LSP of choice was OPT Gloss coat and after 1h a layer of OPT opti-seal.



Gloss coat curing




There is a deeper scratch under the window I could not remove and some paint blobs around the handle from the previous owner.






And the video showing no swirls or scratches (may not be the best quality, if so I am sorry)


What are my expectations. I think its fair to say I do expect to get a some light swirls over winter and this is normal. We all try to be careful about our cars as much as possible but in the end we all make mistakes here and there and so will I.

Well the prep is done. After polishing I did not notice any swirls except on the lower part where I polished it 2 times but oddly could not remove them. But you really have to look very carefully under an angle to notice them.





OK now its time to get the car dirty so...Ill see you when I see you...at the next wash.
 
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#2 ·
A&J what's the point now, when you have applied this:confused:

Optimum Gloss-Coat is a high-tech polymer system that forms an extra layer of clear coat over all external surfaces Formulated by award-winning Dr. David Ghodoussi, Optimum Gloss-Coat is designed to provide resistance to etching caused by harsh detergents, and swirl marks that are often inflicted during the wash process.


Surely you should of left that panel clear from any LSP:rolleyes:.
So all that writing and prep has been a waste of time mate, because it's not going to show how rinseless washers cause damage to normal paint that hasn't been coated.
 
#4 ·
A&J what's the point now, when you have applied this:confused:

Surely you should of left that panel clear from any LSP:rolleyes:.
So all that writing and prep has been a waste of time mate, because it's not going to show how rinseless washers cause damage to normal paint that hasn't been coated.
Read rule #2 and #10 mate.

Coatings can provide a bit of hardness and protection from wiping with a dry MF but they are certainly not bullet proof :rolleyes:
 
#7 ·
Chongo you can do the exact same test if you want to without LSP and damage your paint all day long if you want...Im not that stupid.

I can bend a rule a bit on rule #1 if you are willing and tomorrow polish the back door and only seal it with opti-seal if that will shut you up a bit :p just say the word.
 
#8 ·
Chongo you can do the exact same test if you want to without LSP and damage your paint all day long if you want...Im not that stupid.

So you admit it does cause damage, lol A&J I don't think you are getting what I am saying, but you go ahead and conduct your test, but at lease I know that I wouldn't be damaging my paint or anybody's else's using a rinseless wash.
 
#9 · (Edited)
So you admit it does cause damage
I meant you can do your own test with whatever products you like (doesn't have to be rinseless) on a car without LSP and we will see what happens in spring :wall:

I don't expect to get through without some swirls but its not gonna be more damaged than if I used the traditional method. And so you know...I never said rinseless washes dont inflict damage. That would be stupid. I just believe that they dont do it more than any other washes do.

Its not the product that causes paint damage...its in the user that does it...and we all make mistakes. If the traditional way of washing was soooo good and safe than the studio and showroom thread cars wouldt be as damaged and in need off correction as they do, now would they :rolleyes: I think everyone that has ever washed the car no matter the product and way has came to a certain point where he noticed swirls appearing. And there is no getting around that.
 
#10 ·
A&J my friend, when you start to rephrase certain sentences and words like you have done, it only shows that you know what I have been saying is right:D

But if your happy with a ONR, which you obviously are, let's just agree to disagree :thumb:

Oh one more questio. What is the safest, ONR or 2bw:lol:
 
#11 ·
Onr with the 2bm:p meaning you have onr in one bucket and rinse water in the other.

Chongo..I dont know what your ego wants to hear but I NEVER said rinseless washes DONT damage paint...and no one else said it either. I does...but so does your beloved shampoos or else you woudnt have to polish your cars every now and then and your paint would be perfect from day 1 to the day you sell it so clearly you are doing something wrong.
 
#12 ·
:lol::lol::lol: A&J you are digging your own grave mate:rolleyes: theses are cars I look after and are used on a daily basis and are NOT my cars :lol: so remember again, stop saying things you haven't got a clue about:D I really am hitting a sore point with you, so I will say one thing, I could carry on with this but am not that old stubborn person I was. So friend:thumb: let's just leave it like that:wave:

Oh A&J, I do have an ego, but a controlled one:D
 
#13 ·
I never gave false claims about rinseless washes...Thats what bohers me about what you say because I get the feeling you think I did. I know their limits and the fact they can damage the paintwork if you use it like an idiot. Same goes for every other way of washing.

Ive always said to use what you like and what you trust in, and I still stand by that :wave:
 
#19 ·
I said "maybe" and the same maybe applies to any wash type, even if you use hundreds of liters of water and the best shampoo.
Don't get too hung up on light marring, it will appear even with the best products and techniques. By light marring I mean those scratches you really really have to look for with a very targeted light.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Update - 2nd wash

After 17 days and 571 km. Temperature was 9 deg. C and sunny.

Products used were:
Surf city garage rinse free wash&wax
Serious performance QD
Gyeon silk dryer

To make things more interesting I thought I would give you my product opinion on Surf city rinse free.
Its packed in about 1l bottle with the pop up cap that lets you spill it out which is very useful. The instructions say to use 60ml in 15l of water which is way too much solution. I used 30ml in 7,5l (2 gallons) and for the pre-spray I used another 30ml in about 1,2l of tap water (15-20 should also be fine to save some product). The solution is green and it smells nice and fruity but I can not put my finger on it what the scent is but again its nice.
One thing I have notice using this is that although its not very strong at dissolving dirt it really is very lubricated, and I mean verrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyy lubricated. The sponge I used glided on the surface and water sheeted down on the protected surface leaving behind only droplets to wipe away. It also leaves some sort of short term protection behind (polymer or carnauba I assume) that lasts about a week. The wax part of the product also leaves behind lots of gloss as shown in the pictures below.
I have also made a waterless mix out of it in 9:1 mix ratio and used it a couple of times and its nice. With a good adjustable sprayer head I can create a fine mist on the surface that traps light dust&dirt so that the soft plush towel can lift it safely away.
Its a product I can say it works and it works really well and its something I would use again if I wanted a wash&wax product.

State of the car before the wash:






The wash:





State of the car after the wash:















Thank you for watching...till next time :wave:
 
#25 · (Edited)
As you have seen I checked for dirt and did rinse my sponge quite often before I was satisfied with the wash. With the car that dirty you really have to be more careful. I also try to check and clean the sponge if I see its covered it leaves and dirt before I continue. I even switched the rinse water because it was too dirty.

Thanks for watching :thumb:
 
#26 ·
Nice pics and video A&J, but it made me cringe every time you wiped the panel with the sponge:doublesho still no actual feed back thou, no close up video or photos A&J:rolleyes: but just a shiny car from a distance:D. Still don't understand why you would do this form of washing when you have the chance to do a proper wash and reducing the chance of swirls:confused: what drying aid did you use A&J:thumb:
 
#27 ·
Nice pics and video A&J,
Wow...is that a compliment chongo :confused: You never gave me a compliment before :doublesho :p

but it made me cringe every time you wiped the panel with the sponge:doublesho still no actual feed back thou, no close up video or photos A&J:rolleyes: but just a shiny car from a distance:D.
Wait for it...
I did a close up video but could not found any swirls except on some lower parts where apparently the flat foam pad could not get to it. Their are barely visible. Also Its only been 2 washes so I thought it was a bit too soon to report and to be honest Im S#it at photographing them and filming them and also my camera is S#it too. But I did my best.

Here you can see the current state


No damage visible...there is some on the back door where I used BH cleanser polish and FK1000p but very minor.

For comparison here is a 50:50 shot I made on my father-in-laws car with AF tripple and white hex pad and a DA. Swirls are more visible so if there were any on my car they should be showing up on this camera.


Still don't understand why you would do this form of washing when you have the chance to do a proper wash and reducing the chance of swirls:confused:
I enjoy it more.

what drying aid did you use A&J:thumb:
Its all listed above. It was Serious performance QD (the pink one). Its just in a OPT QD bottle as I dont have any other.
I bought the concentrate version and now I have a gallon of it ready to use. Not a good drying aid but its super lubricated (perfect for clay lube) and the panel feels very slick afterwards.
 
#28 ·
I always give you compliments:lol::lol:

A&J you don't have to justify your camera not able to pick up the swirls:rolleyes: I believe you mate, I just know by experience that their is no way you could do that wash procedure without inflicting any light swirls:D was your car paint bare paint or has it got some kind of polish and LSP on:confused:
 
#31 ·
The door we are looking at I polished with OPT hyper polish, panel wiped with OPT paint prep and protected it with OPT gloss coat. I only did 2 washes with the products listed above so no...no fillers were used on the driver door.

If you are talking about the rest of the car...I winter prepped it using Britemax blackmax on most of the car and BH cleanser polish (because my wife was asking "why does it take so long" so to speed things up I used a AIO) on 3 panels including the left back door. LSP was FK 1000p if that what you are asking.
 
#33 ·
I said in the beginning we were only observing the driver door...I did my winter prep a week before I did this and I did not have the time to do it again...This car is like a freaking mother ship. Trust me you would not want to polished the entire car twice in 1 week.

I did polish 1 panel as mentioned and we are only watching that panel as agreed. If you think its pointless than that's your opinion.
 
#37 ·
This is an interesting concept. Perhaps not for the OP's intended way but it's good to see how the LSP lasts under very basic washing techniques.

Having watched the YouTube video above that LSP looks to be holding back the swirls quite nicely.
Thanks but to be fair Ive only done 2 washes so far ;)

And given the low temps Im not sure when the next wash will be :(

But stay tuned :wave:
 
#38 ·
Just as a general comment on No Rinse type products I've watched several videos on them and I'm struggling to identify any time savings over conventional washing techniques and, if you have to use a hose to get some of the crud off before hand I am not seeing huge potential for water savings either.

More generally, and thinking of my own car, there do seem to be stages of dirtiness (stating the obvious) and this leads me to a horses for courses approach. Light soiling combined with, say a hosepipe ban, would bring No Rinse products into their own.

Otherwise I struggle to see the benefit.

On AJ's tests - I'll still be interested to see the results after several months.
 
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