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Rinseless washing over winter - long term test

112K views 153 replies 28 participants last post by  fatdazza 
#1 ·
All righty then...if you followed this thread http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=5220541#post5220541 over the last couple of days you know whats about to go down.

I will try to create a long term testing of rinseless washes over the 2016/2017 winter to find out how much damage they can inflict on the car. But its gonna be on my terms and rules. I'm not a idiot...Im not gonna slap a wet sponge on a gritty or muddy surface and say its safe for paint. I know its not and some common sense and caution will be used here. I don't live in a water restricted area, I have the luxury of using water, electricity, a PW with a foam lance, snow foam, APC, and other what you call normal wash stuff at my disposal.

I have been using different rinseless shampoos for the last 2 years and have adopted a routine / a method you might say that suits me. Over this time I have found their limits and know how far I can go with them but Ill still lay in some ground rules at the start just so you wont be dissapointed later on.

OK the rules:
1. We will be observing only one panel. Its gonna be the driver door. I have already winter prepped my car last weekend. I wont do it again. That is why I will do this on one panel. Besides its easier to watch for swirls on a smaller area.

2. I will correct the panel prior and protect it with LSP of my choice. I will try to photograph and video document it the best I can to show there are no swirls (there might be some deeper RIDS left at some places). Just a note...Im not a photographer and dont have a pro camera but I will do the best I can.

3. When I drive I keep my distance from other cars in front so they don't throw road film on my car. My daily trips are usually short and I don't do many miles on the highway. The mileage will be documented from wash to wash (if I don't forget).

4. Ill wash it when I feel like it...It can be after a week, after a month or after a day if I decide to.

5. I normally pre spray the panel with the rinseless solution but its gonna be winter meaning ice and snow and salt so I will use my judgement and asses the car prior washing and react accordingly. This means if I think its too dirty I will use the PW and maybe even snow foam. I will document this as I go. I also normally use the 2bm where I have the wash solution in one bucket and rinse water in the other that is also equipped with a grit guard. For the wash media I use a waffle shaped soft sponge. For anyone asking its similar to the one that Serious performance sells, I just get it elsewhere.

6. I will use different rinseless shampoos over this period of time. I like rinseless washing and I like trying different rinseless shampoos. At the moment I am using Optimum No-rinse, Wolfs chemicals mean green and lately Surf city garage rinse free wash & wax (Jesus fu..k they really gotta find a new name for the last one...its too freeking long). In the near future I just might buy CG rinse free and Surf city professional rinse free (although I think its not much different to the one I have) as they popped up at a dealer in my country.

7. I will dry it with a microfiber drying towel. I will vary between Martin cox waffle, CG miracle dryer and Gyeon silk (the small one).

8. I will use as QD or spray sealant as a drying aid. At the moment I am using OPT QD, OPT opti seal, OPT ONR+OCW mix and Autobrite project32.

9. I will look for swirls with a pocket flashlight I use for correcting paint and try to photograph them or make a video about it at least once a month.

10.If you have any suggestions I am open for a discussion but will not necessarily consider them all.

There you go...10 simple rules.

Let us begin shall we?

First of. Wash the car with ONR




Claying was skipped (I did it last week) so I skipped straight to polishing. I used my DA machine with Optimum hyper polish and orange and white CG hex logic pads. The residue was removed with a ONR soaked microfiber towel and panel wiped with OPT paint prep.





LSP of choice was OPT Gloss coat and after 1h a layer of OPT opti-seal.



Gloss coat curing




There is a deeper scratch under the window I could not remove and some paint blobs around the handle from the previous owner.






And the video showing no swirls or scratches (may not be the best quality, if so I am sorry)


What are my expectations. I think its fair to say I do expect to get a some light swirls over winter and this is normal. We all try to be careful about our cars as much as possible but in the end we all make mistakes here and there and so will I.

Well the prep is done. After polishing I did not notice any swirls except on the lower part where I polished it 2 times but oddly could not remove them. But you really have to look very carefully under an angle to notice them.





OK now its time to get the car dirty so...Ill see you when I see you...at the next wash.
 
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#118 ·
Thanks...didnt think a small light will be needed as I thought the reflector will show all the defects...boy was I wrong :lol: They are visible at the end of the video when I was filming on the parkinglot under direct sun.

For next time Ill wash decon (iron remover) and clay the part and Ill use the smaller light source I used in my first video I believe where I showed in what state the paint was in to show them before I polish.
 
#120 ·
No I havent. Its not available here. If it was it would probably be too expensive.

Im gonna use another Iron remover called Carshinefactory Iron off. Its from a Slovene car care manufacturer (user CSF on this forum) who is slowly releasing his own brand. Some of his stuff is very good. CSF is also a former detailer and my main supplier or car care goodies.

Have fun with ONR W&W and D114 :thumb:
 
#121 ·
Final update - Swirl removal and conclusion

This will be my final update to a long term test where I used only rinseless shampoos to wash my car over winter.

The point of the test was to show you guys & gals that using these shampoos wont harm your paint any more than the stuff you are curently

using.

If used in a correct manner rinseless shampoos are even safer than traditional shampoos. The story behind the concept or theory is that

traditional soappy shampoos are removed after rinsing them so you are dragging your MF towel on bare paint and causing friction between

them while Rinseless shampoos leave a polymer behind that aid in slickness and helps you dry safer (that is at least true for OPT ONR...I

cannot say the same for other rinseless shampoos as I dont know the chemistry behind them).

They also work diferently as soapy shampoos. They trap, emulsify and encapsulate dirt, safely lifting it from the surface and removing it

inside your wash media but note that not all wash medias are good for rinseless. You dont have to complicate too much as a quality sponge

or noodle MF mitt will work just fine. Top tip for this...use the one that releases dirt easily and sponges do that fast and best.

Whichever one you choose note that one pass of Rinseless solution on the paint might not be enough and that maybe sometimes 2-3 will be

needed before removing the excess solution of the paint. And when you do wipe it off you dont need a lot of force doing it...a few light

swipes are better than one agressive swipe. Remember its not the wash process that is inflicting damage its the drying one, but at the

same time you need to do a quality wash before drying. One tip here is to make sure the product starts beading on the surface. That is the

indicator that tells you that you can now safely dry the paint. If the water is still flat on the surface then the road film, and other

dirt has not been succesfully lifted from the surface. In that case do a couple more passes.

I tried a number of Rinseless shampoos along the way, some I liked and some I diddnt but the truth is they all worked. Im still a fan of

ONR and probably always will be but I have discovered a new shampoo that worked really great for me and that was Surf city garage rinse

free wash&wax.

There was also a shampoo that works really well but at the same time I dont like for its residue. That product is Carpro Ech2o. I used it

a couple of times now and even though its the best lubricated and strongest shampoo I just hate the sealant residue it leaves behind for

me to wipe. Its a extra step to take I dont really have time or patience for.

OK lets get back to the point of the test.

I did 10 washes on camera and an extra 3 off camera...one of them was with a standard shampoo I was trying out.
Over the winter I did notice some shallow long swirls that were most likely caused by the drying towel I was using at the time. The

problem with this towel was it did not see the inside of the washing machine in a while and therefore it did acumulate dirt over time. I

believe that was the reason I got them. The twist with these light marring was that they were only visible under the sunlight and under a

certain angle...step 2 steps back and they were gone from the naked eye. Even my spot light or my reflector did not pick them up but they

were there.

As for removal a simple pre-wax cleaner glaze (DJ lime prime lite) covered them quite well so a more agressive polish was not needed. I

still used OPT poli-seal and OPT hyper seal as an example.

Here is the video


Note its quite long...where I cleaned, deconed, clayed and polished the left side of the car...the very same part of the car we were

testing all along.

In my conclusion these washes are safe to use if used in a right way. The technique of washing has to be adapted to the cleaner. You

really have to apply some logic, asses the paint first and respond accordingly. If the car needs a pre-wash (might it be a TFR, snow foam

or APC) and PW rinse then do so if you wish.

There are no rules here and no detailing police will hunt you down if you wash your car in a different and a unique way.

Also please note that these shampoos are not waterless...that is another bunch of worms and I did a video on it in the last 10th update.
Again ONR is NOT a waterless solution...it never has been and it never will be.

Thats it from me...

For the few of you who followed this test from starto to finish I apploud you for doing so. I hope you learned something usefull and

implemented it in your wash process.
For the rest of you who diddnt...read from start to the end...youll learn a lot. Hopefully it will be that TFRs and Snow foams are not

always needed and that a simple rinseless wash can safely remove whatever is bugging you. This chart might also help you decide the

apropriate wash depending on how dirty it is.



Finally thanks for watching

A&J
 
#123 ·
Thanks Lowe...I still ended with ONR as my go-to but there are so many products out there that do the job just as well. Ill still keep buying ONR which I cant say the same for others, some because I dont like and others because I cant get anymore. It was still fun trying them and comparing them to ONR.
 
#125 ·
A very interesting read, A&J. I've got my 32oz bottle of ONR, my Bigpikle-approved grout sponges, a spare pump sprayer and I picked up a nice big, white plasterer's bucket at the weekend to be able to see what comes off the sponge. Now I just need half an hour where the boys and the wife aren't mithering me to do something else ;)
 
#126 ·
Missed some spots on my car when I washed it yesterday, thought I could now test my rinsless wash that I bought a couple of months ago, a disappointment, did not even get rid of a little light traffic film!

I do not need to mention the name, but it is a famous brand.
 
#128 ·
Missed some spots on my car when I washed it yesterday, thought I could now test my rinsless wash that I bought a couple of months ago, a disappointment, did not even get rid of a little light traffic film!
Depends on how you used it...a lot of people who were dissapointed did not use it properly and tried to use it as a QD instead of a bucket wash. Also spray on and let it dwell for about a minute.

In my case unless if it was mud (which you want to PW off first anyways) or insect poo rinseless washes always removed whatever there was on my car (even during winter).

Also if your current wash regime didnt remove it its not likely a rinseless wash will. In that case use TFR, Snow foam or APC first to soften up dirt, traffic film, let it dwell and rinse, then use rinseless wash.
 
#130 · (Edited)
Sorry to hear that...Rinseless washes really arent for EVERY situation. If you live in a area where your car gets realy dirty really fast then a pre-wash (TFR, snow foam, APC) is a must and you are stuck with doing that.
I live in a area where that doesnt happen to me so I have no need for pre-washes for 90% of my washes.

In short...assess the situation and respond accordingly and use a wash that you are most comfortable with.

What works well in my world may always not work well in yours and vice versa :wave:
 
#140 ·
Just caught this thread now.

I was stuck without any access to a PW, or even a basic hosepipe for about 18 months with my last car, so was forced into trying ONR, which I assumed was going to ruin my car (up until then I was a Snow foam and 2BM only kind of guy).

Suffice to say, there was very, very little marring ended up being inflicted on my car. Further to that, I ended up washing the car every week because I could have the whole thing done in 20 minutes. It took me longer to wash the wheels properly (I still used Bilberry and poured a bucket over them to rinse them) than it did to clean the rest of the car.

As already said, pre-spray from a bottle, a good noodle mitt, and a nice soft drying towel are essential.

Now that I have access to a PW again, I STILL use ONR regularly, it's my go to spray for use with clay bars, and even after a 2BM wash I sometimes spray ONR over the car to aid with drying. It always seems to make the car come out better, with far fewer water spots.

I honestly think it's one of the best products on the market. :)
 
#143 ·
Just wondering if I could put this out there for comments. I am new to ONR but have used it 4 times now and I'm a definite convert. I'm lucky in that my low mileage means heavy accumulations of dirt are a rarity.

That said, another of my favourite products is Autoglym Aqua Wax which I used regularly - in fact I still use it if I get the hose, 2 buckets and all the rest of the gear out from time to time.

Could this be used with the ONR? I would use it as per the instructions so 2 or 3 squirts per panel on the vehicle after it had been washed with ONR but NOT DRIED - so on the wet car with the ONR solution still sitting on it.

Am I going to do any damage?
 
#145 · (Edited)
Could this be used with the ONR? I would use it as per the instructions so 2 or 3 squirts per panel on the vehicle after it had been washed with ONR but NOT DRIED - so on the wet car with the ONR solution still sitting on it.

Am I going to do any damage?
That's fine, Aqua Wax is supposed to be used on a wet car. There is so little protection in the ONR (blue), it won't affect the aqua wax.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#146 ·
Could this be used with the ONR? I would use it as per the instructions so 2 or 3 squirts per panel on the vehicle after it had been washed with ONR but NOT DRIED - so on the wet car with the ONR solution still sitting on it.

Am I going to do any damage?
I've been doing that since I started using ONR, never had any problems with Aqua Wax as a drying aid.

Allan
 
#154 ·
Another one here to agree it is a very good product and very versatile. Thanks for taking the time to write up a very thorough thread. Don’t be put off by the detractors, easy to throw bricks for some, but often they aren’t willing to dedicate the time to produce a through review.
 
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