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Machine Polishing Need help with Machine polishing

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Old 13-08-2017, 12:34 PM   #1
Speedy83
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Rotary vs DA?

Often see poeople state that polish with a rotary is faster than using a DA how is that really. I've just tried a rotary and assuming you do it "by the book" with zenith methead and so on it means quite a few passes.

And to avoid holograms i understand that you have to work the polish down which take its time.

So have i missunderstood or what does people mean, that you have a better cut with less aggressiv pad/polish i can belive tho.
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Old 13-08-2017, 04:09 PM   #2
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No this is a myth perpetuated by 2 types of people,

1) people who rush with a rotary and don't know they cant actually use one

2) people who assume based on speed of machine and don't have personal experience with both.

You are absolutely correct that to ensure a crystal finish a rotary needs to be worked carefully and thoroughly. A random orbital requires much less practice to get good results AND the punishment for not thoroughly working a polish/compound is much less severe.

I still do believe that the finish created by forced rotation is superior to that of a machine thats random in nature, but the gains are nominal so I also understand why people don't even bother to learn to use a rotary these days. Unless the paint is super hard, I think a random orbital will almost always be quicker
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Old 13-08-2017, 05:23 PM   #3
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I could never get the hang of a DA properly, even with my friend showing me repeatedly, but for some reason I put a Rotary in my hands it feels natural. But as stated above DA is a lot safer, but both machines need practise
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Old 13-08-2017, 06:19 PM   #4
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It really depend upon what you are working on and the level of removal correction required.
If the surface is already good then the time factor will change as there is less work to do.
In skilled hands rotary has the potential to be much quicker than DA but unless you actually know how to use one correctly to gain the time advantage, disaster is just around the corner or it will be ultimately no faster than the DA and with much greater risk.
With rotary the effort is concentrated more on one section of the pad, although it is spinning, which will give faster cut over a smaller area but despite that, does allow for faster working generally.
If you are getting holograms with any compound/polish then the rotary is not being worked correctly. Some products work down some do not.
This does not necessarily matter too much when initially working on rough and oxidised paint as it will be refined and finished later but unless you understand how to finish as you pass, for the most part, it will all be in vain.
It is quite easy to end up with an unacceptable rotary finish when the same time spent with a DA would give a more acceptable result overall despite not being that good.
It is not difficult to see why the DA is so popular.

I differ slightly from Stangalang in that I feel that rotary finishes better than anything but the difference between a small orbit DA (does take a little longer) and say a 3401 is a little less clear but the forced rotation 3401 and small orbit DA both finish better than any of the larger random orbit machines I have or have used.
The larger machines generally produce a finish that seems very slightly marred to my eyes that requires finishing to be really good but I only ever really use the larger machines for quick work on large panels.
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Old 13-08-2017, 06:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1ner View Post

I differ slightly from Stangalang in that I feel that rotary finishes better than anything but the difference between a small orbit DA (does take a little longer) and say a 3401 is a little less clear but the forced rotation 3401 and small orbit DA both finish better than any of the larger random orbit machines I have or have used.
The larger machines generally produce a finish that seems very slightly marred to my eyes that requires finishing to be really good but I only ever really use the larger machines for quick work on large panels.
No we agree on it, forced rotation trumps random orbital for out and out finish. Its just random orbital makes a "good" finish more accessible to more people
Rotary, rotex, 3401 etc will all produce more gloss and clarity than a rupes etc
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Old 13-08-2017, 09:43 PM   #6
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts/expertise!
A question that also comes to mind when reading this is why all "famous" detailers do the DA if rotary finishes better, thinking of Jim White, Larry (Ammo) and so on fo example?

Any idea?
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Old 14-08-2017, 09:00 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy83 View Post
Thank you for sharing your thoughts/expertise!
A question that also comes to mind when reading this is why all "famous" detailers do the DA if rotary finishes better, thinking of Jim White, Larry (Ammo) and so on fo example?

Any idea?
Again, its reliability. Great results, easily, everytime. If you look at people who do very heavy correction, actual correction, not just swirl removal, there is usually a rotary out for digging at scratches. Its just a rupes can cover so much real estate in a small amount of time, and guarantee no holograms. In this day and age of social media and the keyboard detailer everyone is just waiting to be able to say they found something on somebody else work, and raise their hands like a champion, even though they themselves do nothing and if they did wouldn't post it. So the fact that as a detailer you can remove that possibility, is quite comforting.

Plus their kit looks cool, and this is a visual industry

PS, maybe some of them get paid to use them also #justsaying
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Old 14-08-2017, 09:38 AM   #8
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Worth mentioning that (for example) Jim White does list a Makita rotary in his kit list, and has talked on his channel about the use of extension bars for that tool. So it sounds like he is maybe using that for the "digging out" as stangalang puts it, but uses the Rupes gear to finish off.

I wonder if, as time goes on the proportion of working detailers who have come into the profession from an amateur / DIY background (as opposed to a bodyshop / valet background) will see DA usage at a professional level increase, simply because that's what people have learned on.

There was a "Reddit - Ask Me Anything" with Larry a few years back, I thought this quote was interesting in the context of this thread:
Quote:
FreePizzaAndBeer
Another question regarding scratches. How can you tell when a scratch needs to be wet sanded as opposed to being compounded?
If a scratch needs to be buffed out, will compound and the rupes take care of it with an aggressive compound? What I'm asking is, can a rupes do everything a rotary and wool pad can and then some?

AMMO NYC Larry Kosilla
YES. The rupes can do everything the a rotary and wool pad can do. the difference is time and safety.
The way you can tell if it needs to wetsanding is if the compounding didnt work and you measure the paint and there is enough to work with...if the scratch is thru the paint, then you have no paint to fix. So you will need to repaint.
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Old 14-08-2017, 06:10 PM   #9
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Thank you for the input, very intresting to read. You're right about Jim that he does mention a Makita rotary just not as often as the Rupes

But the DA certinly have seen a upswing recent years. Might be because they are better know and they do preform as good as they do with more saftey and "easier" to learn.

Quite enjoyed working with a rotary for the first time this week!
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Old 14-08-2017, 06:36 PM   #10
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Many years ago i dared to say that before long DA machines will take over whilst many a rotary will be left collecting dust on a shelf, the flaming i recieved for that was less than amusing but here we are many moons later and guess what !!
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