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Old 26-06-2016, 10:14 PM   #291
Kerr
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Originally Posted by spursfan View Post
you seem to have missed the point Kerr, the leave camp have nothing to do with policy making, that is down to the government to make decisions as to where money is spent, and as far as I can see in any literature, it has always been " could spend money on the NHS" not a definite, again, that is down to the government to make those decisions.
As for being duped, I don't think so by a long way. A lot of people I know voted to get out on a variety of reasons, even my next door neighbours who are Polish, voted to get out. they asked me one evening, why we as a country allow so many people in? I told them that I have no idea, their reply was that it would never be allowed to happen in Poland

Another vote is very unlikely, you cannot keep having votes until one day the remain win, then the leave camp will then ask for another vote!! where does it end.
just make the most of what has happened and get on with things.
I understand that it's the government's decision how to spend the money, but it's the way the leave campaign put it across to gain votes. They picked a subject that they knew was a key area to gain votes.

Simply stating their argument that we could potentially save some money would be fair enough. However they always used the NHS over and over to push home a false point.

Repeating the same type of slogans and claims all the time makes people think that the NHS was going to be the main area that would be significantly improved.

They also made people believe immigration would be heavily cut.

These are the two key issues a lot of people though they were voting for.

Now it turns out that immigration won't be cut and the leave campaign admitted their numbers and claims about the NHS were a mistake.

They weren't just a mistake, they set out with every intention to deceive people and it worked extremely well. They certainly hoodwinked millions of people.

The next prime minister is going to be left in an impossible job. He's not going to be able to deliver what people think they were promised. He's going to be left high and dry and left to face the anger when they fail.

It's a totally messed up situation where the claims of some people have to be delivered by someone else.

I'm all for democracy, but I think the result of this vote is just so questionable. Far too many people have voted for the completely wrong reasons.

Your Polish neighbour is also wrong about people wouldn't be allowed to move to Poland. It's free moment within the EU, as much as they can move here, we can move there. We're not likely to move there due to the low wages though. If you ever visit Poland you will find they also have immigrants.
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Old 26-06-2016, 10:49 PM   #292
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Kerr, look like IDS says a bit about your points
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36633595

also, my neighbours say that as you pointed out, there is immigration, but nowhere near the amount we get, that is why they say it would never be tolerated in Poland, and this is from Polish people, so I would be inclined to believe what they say.

Kev
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Old 26-06-2016, 10:54 PM   #293
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I'm all for democracy, but I think the result of this vote is just so questionable. Far too many people have voted for the completely wrong reasons.
I don't normally like to "partially quote" but this part did strike a chord.

The old saying that "in a democracy two idiots can outvote a genius" comes to mind.

In my mind we are lucky to live in a democracy. A vote was taken, both sides campaigned and as in any political campaign there were claims made by both sides which could be seen as "disingenuous".

To make a claim that "far too many people voted for the completely wrong reasons" strikes me that you only believe in democracy when the result suits you.

Democracy is the "rule of the majority". Would you see yourself as the dictator because "you know best"?
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Old 26-06-2016, 10:55 PM   #294
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I laugh my head of at people who claim, the EU need our knowledge, really? Keep dreaming, NOBODY is not replacable.
We got our own company, and my Late Dad told me that when I was 6 years old, is the most important lesson in my life.
When you think that, people will just turn you around and replace you.

I don't think people have realised that the big manufacturing companies in the UK are here, because our acces to the biggest single market in the world (500 milion customers)
When that acces is denied because Brittain left this single market, foreign investors will think twice.

We are not unique in car manufactoring, hence the reason Hyundai and Kia chooose Slovenia for their car manufactoring plant, and to have free acces to the single market.

Do you really think manufactures like Toyota, Honda or Nissan will keep producing here, if the EU raise an import tax on vehicles produced in the Uk (this is the most likely scenario as many members of the EU are car producing nations) and would have all the right to protect their own market.

The very reason Japanese car manufacturers are producing in the EU is the massive import tax on Japanese cars produced outside the EU.
When Britain is not in the Eu anymore, we lost an argument.
So these manufactures came to the UK, and have stayed, when they could have gone anywhere in the EU, why is that?

If Europe want to hit us with levies for our products then we should do the same (if we get a leader strong enough to do this, and that's a big if), like I've said it might do the British economy good for people to go out and buy British made goods.

VW still build Bentleys in this country, BMW still produce Rolls Royce in this country, why is that? Cant the Germans build cars? Maybe because worldwide Made in Britain still means something. How many people that can afford them would buy a Rolls if it said Made in Slovenia.

Why is it people always want to do our country down, maybe because Britain has never invented anything, oh no that can't be it. Maybe we have never made anything worth having, oh no that can't be it.

Maybe the money people have always wanted the excuse to go and live and do business in places like Estonia, Latvia instead of London.

Maybe all the Middle east money will stop coming into London, oh no that wont happen. Maybe all the Russian Billionaires will stop coming and spending in London, maybe they'd sooner go and spend their money in Estonia, Lithuania etc at all the popular shops over there.

Let our partners in the EU try and build Eurofighters without the co-operation from the UK (just one example).

So don't tell me that as a nation we have nothing to offer and we can be that easily replaced.

The most worrying thing for me is that now we've got the decision we wont have a leader strong enough to do what needs doing.
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:00 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by chris182 View Post
So these manufactures came to the UK, and have stayed, when they could have gone anywhere in the EU, why is that?

If Europe want to hit us with levies for our products then we should do the same (if we get a leader strong enough to do this, and that's a big if), like I've said it might do the British economy good for people to go out and buy British made goods.

VW still build Bentleys in this country, BMW still produce Rolls Royce in this country, why is that? Cant the Germans build cars? Maybe because worldwide Made in Britain still means something. How many people that can afford them would buy a Rolls if it said Made in Slovenia.

Why is it people always want to do our country down, maybe because Britain has never invented anything, oh no that can't be it. Maybe we have never made anything worth having, oh no that can't be it.

Maybe the money people have always wanted the excuse to go and live and do business in places like Estonia, Latvia instead of London.

Maybe all the Middle east money will stop coming into London, oh no that wont happen. Maybe all the Russian Billionaires will stop coming and spending in London, maybe they'd sooner go and spend their money in Estonia, Lithuania etc at all the popular shops over there.

Let our partners in the EU try and build Eurofighters without the co-operation from the UK (just one example).

So don't tell me that as a nation we have nothing to offer and we can be that easily replaced.

The most worrying thing for me is that now we've got the decision we wont have a leader strong enough to do what needs doing.
We net import by some margin. Please explain to me how placing levies would help.
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:05 PM   #296
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So what are peoples hopes regarding negotiations with the EU in the next couple of years?

It would seem increasingly likely that Boris will be the leader of the conservative party who will lead these negotiations, what do people think should be the key areas to concentrate on? Do people think that Boris will do well in leading these negotiations, or would you rather see some other member? What do we think is actually possibly to achieve?

I personally don't know enough about the EU to know what options are there. Read a little about the EEA, but not sure if this is part of being a member state, or if it is a separate treaty? Is that automatically under negotiation once article 50 has been triggered? I understand that being part of the EEA means that freedom of trade and people of is allowed between its members. Given that freedom of movement was such a pivotal point made by the leave campaign could they achieve freedom of trade without people?
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:13 PM   #297
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We net import by some margin. Please explain to me how placing levies would help.
If levies are placed on goods we import that would mean a reduction of those items being bought. The companies or countries imposing the levies will see sales reduce.

If people can still afford to buy these goods fair enough, if people are still happy paying the increased prices fair enough, if not they will have to turn to home grown products, as I can see, that would be better for the British economy.

All I'm saying is that if countries now want to punish us for leaving they could be doing themselves harm.
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:18 PM   #298
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If levies are placed on goods we import that would mean a reduction of those items being bought. The companies or countries imposing the levies will see sales reduce.

If people can still afford to buy these goods fair enough, if people are still happy paying the increased prices fair enough, if not they will have to turn to home grown products, as I can see, that would be better for the British economy.

All I'm saying is that if countries now want to punish us for leaving they could be doing themselves harm.
So by placing levies on a smaller amount than the eu places on exports to us, it's financially beneficial to us?

Not many people can afford rolls or say, lotus, or jaguar f types. Somewhat more can afford golfs or a3s.
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:22 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerr View Post
I understand that it's the government's decision how to spend the money, but it's the way the leave campaign put it across to gain votes. They picked a subject that they knew was a key area to gain votes.

Simply stating their argument that we could potentially save some money would be fair enough. However they always used the NHS over and over to push home a false point.

Repeating the same type of slogans and claims all the time makes people think that the NHS was going to be the main area that would be significantly improved.

They also made people believe immigration would be heavily cut.

These are the two key issues a lot of people though they were voting for.

Now it turns out that immigration won't be cut and the leave campaign admitted their numbers and claims about the NHS were a mistake.

They weren't just a mistake, they set out with every intention to deceive people and it worked extremely well. They certainly hoodwinked millions of people.

The next prime minister is going to be left in an impossible job. He's not going to be able to deliver what people think they were promised. He's going to be left high and dry and left to face the anger when they fail.

It's a totally messed up situation where the claims of some people have to be delivered by someone else.

I'm all for democracy, but I think the result of this vote is just so questionable. Far too many people have voted for the completely wrong reasons.

Your Polish neighbour is also wrong about people wouldn't be allowed to move to Poland. It's free moment within the EU, as much as they can move here, we can move there. We're not likely to move there due to the low wages though. If you ever visit Poland you will find they also have immigrants.
everyone voted for what they believe is right for them, nothing wrong with that reason
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Old 26-06-2016, 11:26 PM   #300
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So by placing levies on a smaller amount than the eu places on exports to us, it's financially beneficial to us?

Not many people can afford rolls or say, lotus, or jaguar f types. Somewhat more can afford golfs or a3s.
So start buying Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Fords, Vauxhalls, anything that's made in this country. All the talk is of punishing us for leaving, they want to make an example of us to discourage other countries thinking about it, so start buying British. It might be all you can afford to buy in the times ahead
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