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Old 08-04-2018, 03:00 AM   #1
BradleyW
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Swirls coming back after correction before winter?

After winter weather, swirls have returned on the back bumper and lower region of each door. Front bumper was never corrected so I can't comment. I've washed the car down once every 3 weeks using just snow foam followed by the hose pipe. No physical contact. It got the worse off. Gave it a wash yesterday. 2 bucket method, snow foam, btbm + Marino wool and left to air dry.

Why have swirls returned and how can I prevent them? I think the lsp started to wear down to the point where it wasn't any use. Not sure if relevant I feel like dirt that's hitting the car from normal use including road grit has induced the swirls. If true, why would anyone bother to correct in the first place?

Suggestions?
Also how much paint is removed when a panel is corrected with scholl s40 and white Hex pad? I dont want to burn through the paint if I correct again. The car has already had about 3 full sets of passes with scholl s17 and orange hex pad to remove bad scratches. I just don't want to wear the paint too thin with another set of passes with s40. I rather have plenty of paint left over so I know I can use s40 plenty more times.
Thank you.

Last edited by BradleyW; 08-04-2018 at 03:04 AM.
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Old 08-04-2018, 08:22 AM   #2
stangalang
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Garage
Who did the correction? Was it you or a detailer?
If it was you, how bad was the panel to start and what combos did you use? How many times did you hit the panel, what wipe down products did you use?
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Old 08-04-2018, 09:12 AM   #3
AndyN01
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Stangalang is spot on.

I'm wondering if the panels were truly "swirl free" before the winter. The panels may have looked great but if they weren't wiped down there may well have been some still lurking......

Do you have a swirl spotting torch? They can be very erm..... revealing.

I made mine thanks to the great "How to" here;

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=205820

I can't see how a completely contactless wash would have introduced more swirls. Unless you have a truly mega pressure washer and that's blasted the grit across the paintwork. I don't even know if that's possible? .

The best we can all hope for is to introduce as little "damage" as possible with the best possible washing technique. It sound like you're already doing just that.

What car is this? Have you worked out how "hard" the clearcoat is?

Anyway, back to your questions.

Scholl S40 has a cut of 1/10 so it's very unlikely to take off much clearcoat (do you have a paint thickness gauge to try a test spot with before/after?)

It may not, unfortunately, be enough to remove the swirls. You're back a trying a test spot and seeing where you go from there.

If you're a bit concerned about how much clearcoat you've got left to work with then would a glaze be a better option?

Is the car a keeper? Perhaps being controversial if you're not going to keep her very long then provided you don't get to the point of the clearcoat delaminating or burning through then it's not going to be your problem. Not wonderful for the next owner though.

If she is a keeper then I'd be looking at Glare products because they don't remove clearcoat. It's my "goto" product.

These might be worth a look;

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...t=glare+polish

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...ighlight=glare

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...ighlight=Glare

Available from a member on here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glare-pol...UAAOSw9y1anlPA

Looking forward to hearing how you move forward.

Good luck.

Andy.
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BradleyW (09-04-2018)
Old 08-04-2018, 10:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangalang View Post
Who did the correction? Was it you or a detailer?
If it was you, how bad was the panel to start and what combos did you use? How many times did you hit the panel, what wipe down products did you use?
Each panel was corrected with 4 full sets of passes using S17 + Hex Orange.
To finish, 1 full set of passes using S40 + Hex White.
(8 Passes are in a full set).

Even now, bonnet and roof have some random deep scratches which are very hard to see after the polishing, and didn't pursue them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN01 View Post
Stangalang is spot on.
I'm wondering if the panels were truly "swirl free" before the winter. The panels may have looked great but if they weren't wiped down there may well have been some still lurking......
Do you have a swirl spotting torch? They can be very erm..... revealing.
I made mine thanks to the great "How to" here;
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...d.php?t=205820
I can't see how a completely contactless wash would have introduced more swirls. Unless you have a truly mega pressure washer and that's blasted the grit across the paintwork. I don't even know if that's possible? .
The best we can all hope for is to introduce as little "damage" as possible with the best possible washing technique. It sound like you're already doing just that.
What car is this? Have you worked out how "hard" the clearcoat is?
Anyway, back to your questions.
Scholl S40 has a cut of 1/10 so it's very unlikely to take off much clearcoat (do you have a paint thickness gauge to try a test spot with before/after?)
It may not, unfortunately, be enough to remove the swirls. You're back a trying a test spot and seeing where you go from there.
If you're a bit concerned about how much clearcoat you've got left to work with then would a glaze be a better option?
Is the car a keeper? Perhaps being controversial if you're not going to keep her very long then provided you don't get to the point of the clearcoat delaminating or burning through then it's not going to be your problem. Not wonderful for the next owner though.
If she is a keeper then I'd be looking at Glare products because they don't remove clearcoat. It's my "goto" product.
These might be worth a look;
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...t=glare+polish
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...ighlight=glare
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...ighlight=Glare
Available from a member on here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glare-pol...UAAOSw9y1anlPA
Looking forward to hearing how you move forward.
Good luck.
Andy.
I wiped down until all polish is removed. CarPro Intense Oil Polish Remover for stubborn areas.
I use a strong torch to inspect.
Just regular hose pipe.
Renault Megane MKIII, black paint. It took a while to remove the clear coat damage. Not sure if that's because the paint is hard or the damage was deep.
I don't have a thickness gauge.
Is it Glare Knockout I need for fill swirls?
She's a keeper. Done all the mechanical work myself as well as the paint correction.
I'm worried about my wash mitt. It's merino wool, but after the first wash, it feels somewhat fluffed up and matted. I've not force dried the mitt and only rinsed under warm tap for cleaning.
I've Googled this, many say it's common and once these sort of mitts is wet, it's fine to use.

Suggestions? Thank you.

Last edited by BradleyW; 08-04-2018 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:43 PM   #5
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I've looked into the Glare products. It seems the micro finish product does actually remove clear coat as it states the product contains abrasives.

Is there a product that fills swirls permanently without clear coat removal?

Last edited by BradleyW; 08-04-2018 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 09-04-2018, 09:14 AM   #6
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Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

Really pleased to hear she's a keeper. Too many treat cars as "throw away" items these days .

Technique sounds great.

Yes, it's Knockout that fills swirls and starts the process. For best results I'd go through all 4 steps - Knockout, Spider, Microcut, Pro Polish.

Knockout is basically for scratches

Spider is for swirls

Microcut is for micro scratches & oxidation

Professional Polish is the high gloss finish

The amount of clearcoat removal with Microcut is absolutely minimal. From the (American) Glare web site: "....GLARE MICRO-FINISH has the smallest and finest abrasive particles added to remove light to moderate levels of oxidation and micro scratches without scratching or harming the applied surface....". IMHO it's to give the best possible surface for Pro Polish to bond to.

http://www.glare.com/products?cid=MQ%3D%3D&pn=Vehicles

I don't know of anything that will permanently bond with absolutely no clearcoat removal. I'm not sure it would work because the clearcoat needs to be prepared for the best results. A bit like using cleanser polish before a sealant.

Happy to hear if I'm off the mark. We all learn all the time.

If you're not confident about the wash mitt then try one of these:

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acata...ipad-cat3.html

Good Luck.

Andy.
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Old 09-04-2018, 10:47 AM   #7
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What LSP did you apply? Potentially you caused the swirls when whatever LSP was applied/wiped off. Either that or it's something in your mitt. The areas you're describing pick up the most amount of dirt so it's possible excess got in your mitt at this point and caused the swirls as you're washing those parts.

Or as others have mentioned the correction wasn't actually complete and oils left from the polish were hiding swirls. I'm not sure what you mean by this either?
"I wiped down until all polish is removed. CarPro Intense Oil Polish Remover for stubborn areas."
Stubborn areas of what? I read that as you only used the oil remover on certain parts.
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Old 10-04-2018, 12:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN01 View Post
Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

Really pleased to hear she's a keeper. Too many treat cars as "throw away" items these days .
Technique sounds great.
Yes, it's Knockout that fills swirls and starts the process. For best results I'd go through all 4 steps - Knockout, Spider, Microcut, Pro Polish.
Knockout is basically for scratches
Spider is for swirls
Microcut is for micro scratches & oxidation
Professional Polish is the high gloss finish
The amount of clearcoat removal with Microcut is absolutely minimal. From the (American) Glare web site: "....GLARE MICRO-FINISH has the smallest and finest abrasive particles added to remove light to moderate levels of oxidation and micro scratches without scratching or harming the applied surface....". IMHO it's to give the best possible surface for Pro Polish to bond to.

http://www.glare.com/products?cid=MQ%3D%3D&pn=Vehicles

I don't know of anything that will permanently bond with absolutely no clearcoat removal. I'm not sure it would work because the clearcoat needs to be prepared for the best results. A bit like using cleanser polish before a sealant.
Happy to hear if I'm off the mark. We all learn all the time.
If you're not confident about the wash mitt then try one of these:

http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acata...ipad-cat3.html
Good Luck.
Andy.
Thank you for the support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leebo310 View Post
What LSP did you apply? Potentially you caused the swirls when whatever LSP was applied/wiped off. Either that or it's something in your mitt. The areas you're describing pick up the most amount of dirt so it's possible excess got in your mitt at this point and caused the swirls as you're washing those parts.

Or as others have mentioned the correction wasn't actually complete and oils left from the polish were hiding swirls. I'm not sure what you mean by this either?
"I wiped down until all polish is removed. CarPro Intense Oil Polish Remover for stubborn areas."
Stubborn areas of what? I read that as you only used the oil remover on certain parts.
I only used polish remover if I found the used polish hard to remove.
I've since gone over the car with Scholl S40 after a full thorough wash with G3 body prep.
After polishing, I wiped the oily surface with distilled water + alcohol rub (15% alcohol).
Inspected each panel to ensure surfaces were clean and bare.
Rinsed the car with hose pipe, applied HydrO2, rinsed off.
Drove off the shops. Started raining as soon as I went out, but the beading was excellent and car is more or less swirl free.

Products Used; G3 Body Prep, Scholl S40, IPA, CarPro HydrO2.

Next time I wash, It'll be BH Snow Foam, BTBM, HydrO2 top up, sheet water droplets off, pat down remaining droplets, Sonax BSD to avoid water stains. All using very soft products and minimal wiping.
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Old 10-04-2018, 08:58 AM   #9
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Looking forward to seeing how this pans out over time.

Cheers, thanks and good luck.

Andy.
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Old 10-04-2018, 02:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyN01 View Post
Looking forward to seeing how this pans out over time.

Cheers, thanks and good luck.

Andy.
I'll be washing the car in a week or two. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for all the help.

Last edited by BradleyW; 10-04-2018 at 03:15 PM.
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