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Old 27-12-2017, 02:49 PM   #31
DimitriUK
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Originally Posted by millns84 View Post

It shows the state of our supposed democracy that both the establishment and their media are doing everything possible to sabotage a democratic mandate.
It shows how easy people get duped if you press the right buttons.
Do not forget the Jesus was also democratically crucified.
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Old 27-12-2017, 03:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by millns84 View Post
Well that's because the people organising our exit from the EU are not Eurosceptics.

YouGov Eurotrack poll held between 13-19th December found:-

Remain - 39%
Leave - 48%
Undecided - 13%

- Obviously mainstream media would have you believe otherwise, but their figures are way off as seen the day before Brexit and even the US election.
Who do they ask for this? in 56 years never once been asked, nor do I know anybody who's been asked.

But maybe that's just me.
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Old 27-12-2017, 04:28 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by millns84 View Post
Well that's because the people organising our exit from the EU are not Eurosceptics.

YouGov Eurotrack poll held between 13-19th December found:-

Remain - 39%
Leave - 48%
Undecided - 13%

- Obviously mainstream media would have you believe otherwise, but their figures are way off as seen the day before Brexit and even the US election.
Some of the websites I'm on had their own polls at the time and the swings were huge.

How do you make one more valid than the other? A small sample of voters on specific websites gives random results.

I've never heard anyone say I voted stay and would now like to leave. On the other hand I've heard and read of lots who aren't so happy leaving now.
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Old 27-12-2017, 04:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Kerr View Post
Some of the websites I'm on had their own polls at the time and the swings were huge.

How do you make one more valid than the other? A small sample of voters on specific websites gives random results.

I've never heard anyone say I voted stay and would now like to leave. On the other hand I've heard and read of lots who aren't so happy leaving now.
I think a Yougov poll is likely to be more representative, unlike the recent poll in the "Independent" which gave remain an 11 point lead. When you look at the figures of the latter more closely, the "gains" were made up of 2016 referendum non-voters... I suppose it stands to reason that there will be fake polls in fake news.

According to BMG, around 90% of leave and remain voters haven't changed their views, which I think is very admirable of the leave voters given the amount of propaganda surrounding the subject.
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Old 27-12-2017, 05:36 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by DimitriUK View Post
It shows how easy people get duped if you press the right buttons.
Do not forget the Jesus was also democratically crucified.
You could also argue that people were duped into signing into the common market which later became the EU.
Or they were also duped on the EU constitution which many people rejected but 98% (iirc) of the constitution was passed through via the Lisbon treaty which the people had no say in.

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”
- Attributed to Jean Monnet, one of the founding fathers of the European Union.

I do sympathise with foreigners who come here to work legally. The reason so many of our own do not go for the jobs at the lower end of the market is because we have raised a generation who believed they are entitled to everything.
The welfare system also makes it difficult to get out of the system as you will have to earn a disproportionately high amount to get the economic benefits of taking a job. So someone on benefits will won't take a low paid job (even as a stepping stone), when you take travel, losing the various benefits, childcare, then risk no income if the job is short term and you have to wait to receive benefits again etc.

There is also a lack of investment from companies in the younger generation in training, because they can import 'ready made' employees from abroad (so there is little incentive to invest) ie. nurses.

Also there is a belief by many students that go to University, you are entitled to a high paying job as soon as you graduated so they are unwilling to start at the lower end.

I'd personally phase out the majority (not all) of benefits for newborns so the next generation won't grow up with the attitude that the state owes them a living, therefore make them more willing to take jobs at the lower end.

Last edited by kh904; 27-12-2017 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 27-12-2017, 09:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by DimitriUK View Post
Well talk is cheap, what is your job by the way? Why do you think the Italians are milking the system whereas the Indians are hard working doctors?

I ask the above questions because:

1) I am tired of people wanting to take back control and at the same time not seen as a problem having an American pimp to protect us from the Russians

2) Why I will effectively subsidize brit apple pickers when someone else can do it cheaply?

3) Who were the foreigners that were happy with brexit? the answer to this question will tell you if brexit is a good or bad thing.
The 3 polish guys next door all voted to leave, their mates also did. When I asked jack (polish guy), he said to me that any country this size should not be letting in this insane amount of people,be it migrants or refugees, he says Poland would not allow it, seems he was right, Poland are being sued by the EU for not taking in any refuges as part of their EU quota.
Think that answers number 3
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Old 27-12-2017, 09:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Kerr View Post
Some of the websites I'm on had their own polls at the time and the swings were huge.

How do you make one more valid than the other? A small sample of voters on specific websites gives random results.

I've never heard anyone say I voted stay and would now like to leave. On the other hand I've heard and read of lots who aren't so happy leaving now.
I know remoaners at work who say they would honour the first referendum if another one was somehow called.
Shame that most remoaners do not have any sense of honour.
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Old 27-12-2017, 09:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by spursfan View Post
The 3 polish guys next door all voted to leave, their mates also did. When I asked jack (polish guy), he said to me that any country this size should not be letting in this insane amount of people,be it migrants or refugees, he says Poland would not allow it, seems he was right, Poland are being sued by the EU for not taking in any refuges as part of their EU quota.
Think that answers number 3
Poland do allow it though. The place has been flooded with Ukranians.

There is more Ukranians working in Poland(with a smaller population than us) than there is Poles here.
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Old 27-12-2017, 09:23 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Darlofan View Post
Farmers round here seem to do ok, brother in law works on a farm too and his boss isn't short. Worked in many country pubs over the years and there wasn't one where farmers weren't regulars, all had new cars regularly and holidays annually. Then going back 30 years my dad had a garage where a lot of his customers were farmers, no shortage of cash for them back then either. Always paid cash too😉
I live near the vale of evesham where most of the produce is hand picked, its not eu people that pick the produce now, hasn't been for years, its Russian federation and that's fact.
polish haven't picked on farms here using gangmasters for maybe 10 years, they have moved on to what most people would call normal jobs, like the ones you or I might go for.
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Old 27-12-2017, 09:26 PM   #40
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Some farmers do make good money. It depends what they are farming. Check out how many dairy farms are closing for example.

Do you ever wonder how 4 pints of milk costs 99p and a bag of carrots can cost 20p?

Many are selling their products for below cost and are subsidised by the government and the EU. All the farms up here had anti-brexit flags and banners as they are dependant on the payments.

A quick Google shows that many farms don't make much money at all.
That's not totally true, dairy has picked up quite a bit, and I don't think the price of milk has anything to do with the eu, its more to do with strong arm tactics from the main supermarket chains
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