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Old 16-01-2018, 10:02 AM   #1
wezjones
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Cermanic Vs Waxing

Hi Guy need some advise, been detailing my own cars for over 12 years now using so no beginner at this, but im in two minds weather to go the cermanic route on my new RS in black, as i hear that you can not wax the car again once done, where as now i enjoy spending the day on the car getting it to the finish i like,

has anyone any thoughts which why you would go the cermanic over waxes, i hear that it can still mark and swirl the same but harder to remove,

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Wesley
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Old 16-01-2018, 10:07 AM   #2
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Is Cermanic only for german cars? (SCNR)

You can wax across most ceramic coatings. There is just no real point to do so. A ceramic is not done to have a scratch free car ... they at best avoid the tiniest of swirls, but certainly nothing bigger like a stone chip or keydrag. The advantage of a ceramic coating is mostly longevity. They simply last very, very long. Most of them also have a decent shine etc. If your goal is to do some car cleaning zen and love doing it, then buy something shortlived so you have a reason to redo things, won't be really necessary with a proper coating. Which is why I love them. Apply and forget (apart from normal washing). I was crazy with having to try 50 waxes per year, till i realized it's all the same stuff since decades and just settled for something sane.

You still have to wash them to maintain proper water repelling etc, though, it's not some totally magical thing that will repel all dirt and water automatically for years.

Last edited by voon; 16-01-2018 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 16-01-2018, 10:13 AM   #3
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Forensic detailing channel is on with doing a few episodes at the minute with ceramic coatings. There worth a watch. I know a future episode is to do with, is a ceramic coating right of you. I've used coatings for the last 6 years.
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Old 16-01-2018, 11:18 AM   #4
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I made the move over to ceramic coatings a few years ago, like you I had always gone for the best waxes, and spent hours getting my vehicles the best on the street.

I can honestly say ceramic is the way forward,and I am more than happy with the results.
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Old 16-01-2018, 11:31 AM   #5
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General rule of thumb is:

Ceramic for new cars, new paint or machine polished paint, more advanced users who can deal with trickier application.

Waxes for older cars/paint, swirled cars that are not machine polished and users who want or need a simpler application.

We make and sell all technologies (from 'natural' waxes through acrylic and polymer sealants to nano-ceramic sealants) so have no vested interest in one or the other, but it is despairing when people seem to treat one tech or product as a replacement for another, or even a step further forward. Each tech has its merits and disbenefits. Often this miseducation is driven by makers of one particular tech or another.

Try applying a nano-ceramic to 10 year old black daily driver with average paint and 50/50 it with a wax and see the result (without machine polishing). Wax wins.

Apply nano-ceramic to machine polished brand new car for collection, 50/50 with wax. Nano-ceramic residually present 18 months later, wax isn't. Nano-ceramic wins.

And for the best dirt repellence on average paint (non-machine polished), polymer sealants win.

Ease of application - natural waxes FTW.

Scratch resistance (relatively... PPF still best course of action)... nano-ceramics FTW.

It all depends. But for Wez, I'd go nano-ceramic, no need for wax on top. That will nullify some of the surface/finish characteristics of the nano-ceramic although no harm will be done. It's just unnecessary. Top up with a 'semi-nano' spray sealant or a nice acrylic sealant maybe for a show, but all it really needs is good maintenance.
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Old 16-01-2018, 12:31 PM   #6
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Trickier application? I never applied anything easier than these very watery coatings .. it's beyond easy to smear on with a tiny textile pad, just glides so easily ... I had more issues with most waxes.

The thing is to not wait to long to grab remaining product off .. but that's not really tricky, just need to remember. if you do walk off fot TV or McDonalds, you'll come back to hardened swirls.
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Old 16-01-2018, 01:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voon View Post
Trickier application? I never applied anything easier than these very watery coatings .. it's beyond easy to smear on with a tiny textile pad, just glides so easily ... I had more issues with most waxes.
There is trickier application for most users in most situations with most paints with a nano-ceramic product than for a wax. This is due to the molecular size of the coating and its superior adhesion properties. On new paint you may find it very easy. Try applying it to older partially-UV damaged paint and it is a real problem.

You may never have experienced these application conditions and find it easy, but this is where there is a danger of accidentally being misleading to a wide audience.

In general, nano-ceramics are tricky to apply compared to waxes. That is only a general comment and not true in all cases for all people, but is what most people will find most of the time on a wide selection of paints, assuming no more than standard detailing ability.

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Old 16-01-2018, 01:35 PM   #8
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Damaged paint by UV should be a nonissue on any modern car with a clearcoat. The only relatively modern car I once saw of that damaged sort was an old MR2, which had no clearcoat and rotten red paint (going the usual pink). I wouldn't call that "the most".

Otherwise on any modern clearcoated car, a proper chemical preparation step with the usual preppers should do the trick. Having a clean surface is truly a necessity, but not that hard to achieve.
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Old 16-01-2018, 02:24 PM   #9
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This is where things are quite interesting. You basically said previously that waxes are all pretty much the same (they aren't) and now that clearcoat basically doesn't suffer from UV damage (it does). You'll actually find clearcoats degrading from 3-5 years especially on darker coloured and red cars, especially due to the actions of TFRs as well as UV light. There are more than a few of these around, not just your non-clearcoated MR2s.

But we'll let people have fun with waxes and nano-ceramics and come to their own conclusions. We're not going to agree on things for various reasons.
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Old 16-01-2018, 02:34 PM   #10
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Slightly off the topic but looking for advice please.

When I collected my new car a few weeks ago I was told it had been "ceramic coated". I must admit that meant very little to me until I started reading threads here on DW. Is there anything I should do to a car that has been ceramic coated after it's been washed, should I apply anything on top of the coating? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
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