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Old 10-05-2017, 10:15 AM   #11
Brian1612
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Not often I agree with Cheeky monkey but he is spot on here, as is Todd. Knowing the specs of a towel is very important to me and should be to everyone who takes detailing seriously on this forum. I only buy my buffing towels from 2 companies currently as they state all the worth while info on their towels.

Find it surprising Autoglym won't give that sort of basic information on their towels either as it's hardly revealing anything.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:35 AM   #12
Imperialjim
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So it seems there are some important factors to consider when buying MFs now. Could those in the know divulge what factors are important and what we should be looking for?

Mentioned:
- Polyamide/Polyester content or ratio - what value?
- Country of origin - preferably not China or N.Korea
- Weight - assume this is gsm? I believe more is better, depending on what you want the cloth to do, where less can be more?
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:49 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Brian1612 View Post
Not often I agree with Cheeky monkey but he is spot on here, as is Todd. Knowing the specs of a towel is very important to me and should be to everyone who takes detailing seriously on this forum. I only buy my buffing towels from 2 companies currently as they state all the worth while info on their towels.

Find it surprising Autoglym won't give that sort of basic information on their towels either as it's hardly revealing anything.
I don't find it that surprising a commercial organisation doesn't want to disclose details or ingredients as a matter of course. There will be a fear this could give a competitor an advantage.

I guess it will really be down to consumer demand and what impact the loss of sales has to change behaviour. If say 100 people only choose cloths from suppliers who disclose then they will probably live with that. If it gets to 10000 there may be a rethink.

I don't have enough knowledge about MF to comment technically but is there really a huge difference in ability between a good cloth and the top of the range version.

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Old 10-05-2017, 01:34 PM   #14
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Ingredients and the spec of a towel are two completely different spectrums. You don't buy a wax based on ingredients solely... A cloth you NEED to know it to confirm if it's a quality product or not prior to a purchase.

One of the companies I use are a huge company in the states and now branching out to the UK and Europe yet they state everything you would want to know about the towels they sell. I just think it's the correct way in which to present your company. It shows professionalism in my own opinion.

It depends on what you class as a good cloth and a top of the range cloth. Comparing a typical short pile, terry cloth to something with a thicker, longer pile is going to be night and day.
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:49 PM   #15
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Without wishing to get drawn on this too much, we wanted to explain why we do not share this sort of information. On the face of it, it is simple, but a terrific amount of work goes into choosing our accessories and developing formulations.

We spend a lot of time testing all of the accessories that we use before they are approved. It isn't just a matter of choosing the qualities that we want and then going and sourcing that from a supplier (although that is a good starting point). Take microfibre cloths for example, if we decided that we wanted a certain size, blend and weight of cloth, found it and that was the end of that, we may end up overlooking or missing a better spec that helps the products perform even better. Sometimes what may originally appear to be the best feature (more density, larger size, longer strands etc) may actually not be right for our products. That is why we test everything we can find. We tested over 40 different microfibre cloths before we settled on the one that was best for Autoglym products. Not only did we test 40 different cloths, but we also had to test each of those with all of the products in our range that would be used with that cloth. Once you get the performance of the cloth right with the products in your range, you then have to make sure that there aren't any odd issues like the colour of the cloth fading, or bleeding during use. If there are issues, we overcome them or look for alternatives (or warn customers). Then every time you launch a new product that is paired with that accessory, you have to carry out another round of testing. As you can hopefully imagine this can represent hundreds of hours of testing and, to be blunt, that has a value. Let us suppose for a moment that another supplier liked our cloths, wasn't that fussed about carrying out their own testing and wanted to source the same spec to sell on to their customers. If the specification information was available they could just find someone to make that for them and benefit from all that research for nothing. We believe that the cloths we provide bring out the best in the Autoglym products that they are paired with, and anyone that has visited the Autoglym labs and seen the volume of testing we carry out would hopefully agree that we do a thorough job. The cloths, products and all the other accessories we supply go through a rigorous testing process and only when we are happy with them do we release them to be used.

This is reminiscent of the 'wax percentage' war that raged a few years ago, where the percentage of wax, usually carnauba wax, became the most important thing about the product. To some it didn't matter whether they liked the product, whether it was easy to use, whether it left a good finish etc, as long as the wax had the highest percentage of carnauba wax. By taking a step back and removing the wax percentage from their decision process, we are sure a few people were surprised be the performance of some waxes and ultimately came to realise that it didn't really matter as long as the overall product was excellent and performed in the way they wanted. We are not suggesting that anyone who wants to know about cloth specs is falling into that trap, nor that they do not understand that wax percentage is the only thing important in a wax, nor that only cloths that meet x, y and z are any good. However, we were not drawn on the wax % argument, we believed HD Wax was an excellent wax and that was enough. Similarly with our cloths, we believe they bring out the best in our products, and we recommend them to you if using the products.

Oops, that wasn't meant to be a long post.

TL;DR We have done a lot of testing and believe our cloths are great. All that testing took ages; we don't publicise specs.
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Old 10-05-2017, 06:04 PM   #16
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I have a few of these cloths and can confirm they are very good
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Old 11-05-2017, 12:07 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Autoglym View Post
Without wishing to get drawn on this too much, we wanted to explain why we do not share this sort of information. On the face of it, it is simple, but a terrific amount of work goes into choosing our accessories and developing formulations.

We spend a lot of time testing all of the accessories that we use before they are approved. It isn't just a matter of choosing the qualities that we want and then going and sourcing that from a supplier (although that is a good starting point). Take microfibre cloths for example, if we decided that we wanted a certain size, blend and weight of cloth, found it and that was the end of that, we may end up overlooking or missing a better spec that helps the products perform even better. Sometimes what may originally appear to be the best feature (more density, larger size, longer strands etc) may actually not be right for our products. That is why we test everything we can find. We tested over 40 different microfibre cloths before we settled on the one that was best for Autoglym products. Not only did we test 40 different cloths, but we also had to test each of those with all of the products in our range that would be used with that cloth. Once you get the performance of the cloth right with the products in your range, you then have to make sure that there aren't any odd issues like the colour of the cloth fading, or bleeding during use. If there are issues, we overcome them or look for alternatives (or warn customers). Then every time you launch a new product that is paired with that accessory, you have to carry out another round of testing. As you can hopefully imagine this can represent hundreds of hours of testing and, to be blunt, that has a value. Let us suppose for a moment that another supplier liked our cloths, wasn't that fussed about carrying out their own testing and wanted to source the same spec to sell on to their customers. If the specification information was available they could just find someone to make that for them and benefit from all that research for nothing. We believe that the cloths we provide bring out the best in the Autoglym products that they are paired with, and anyone that has visited the Autoglym labs and seen the volume of testing we carry out would hopefully agree that we do a thorough job. The cloths, products and all the other accessories we supply go through a rigorous testing process and only when we are happy with them do we release them to be used.

This is reminiscent of the 'wax percentage' war that raged a few years ago, where the percentage of wax, usually carnauba wax, became the most important thing about the product. To some it didn't matter whether they liked the product, whether it was easy to use, whether it left a good finish etc, as long as the wax had the highest percentage of carnauba wax. By taking a step back and removing the wax percentage from their decision process, we are sure a few people were surprised be the performance of some waxes and ultimately came to realise that it didn't really matter as long as the overall product was excellent and performed in the way they wanted. We are not suggesting that anyone who wants to know about cloth specs is falling into that trap, nor that they do not understand that wax percentage is the only thing important in a wax, nor that only cloths that meet x, y and z are any good. However, we were not drawn on the wax % argument, we believed HD Wax was an excellent wax and that was enough. Similarly with our cloths, we believe they bring out the best in our products, and we recommend them to you if using the products.

Oops, that wasn't meant to be a long post.

TL;DR We have done a lot of testing and believe our cloths are great. All that testing took ages; we don't publicise specs.
As i am the one who opened this can of worms re mf cloths i would like to respond to this post from autoglym. I have been using Autoglym products for the last 30 years and i believe they have an excellent array of products. i have 10 of their mf red mf cloths. The response from autoglym is a very fair one and i can see their point of view. The only issue i would question is comparing the debate on mf to that of the carnauba wax debate is incorrect imo as its like comparing apples to oranges. you must compare like with like. As far as i am aware carnauba wax no matter what % has the potential to damage your paint unless you go crazy and apply it with a brillo pad (humour) whereas an inferior mf cloth has the potential to cause damage to your paint. I am in no way suggesting that Autoglyms mf cloths are inferior just because they will not divulge data which they believe may aid their competitor. while i stand over my initial post and my expressed opinions on the matter i believe autoglym when they say their mf is the best for their products and they have tested over 40. Autoglym imo are an honest reliable company and i am in this case happy to continue using their mf cloths based on their response. To be honest all i wanted was a response to my query from autoglym and i was a little peeved with i didnt get any in all honesty
Sorry for the long winded post and continued success too autoglym
regards
todds

Last edited by todds; 11-05-2017 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 11-05-2017, 01:20 AM   #18
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As i am the one who opened this can of worms re mf cloths i would like to respond to this post from autoglym. I have been using Autoglym products for the last 30 years and i believe they have an excellent array of products. i have 10 of their mf red mf cloths. The response from autoglym is a very fair one and i can see their point of view. The only issue i would question is comparing the debate on mf to that of the carnauba wax debate is incorrect imo as its like comparing apples to oranges. you must compare like with like. As far as i am aware carnauba wax no matter what % has the potential to damage your paint unless you go crazy and apply it with a brillo pad (humour) whereas an inferior mf cloth has the potential to cause damage to your paint. I am in no way suggesting that Autoglyms mf cloths are inferior just because they will not divulge data which they believe may aid their competitor. while i stand over my initial post and my expressed opinions on the matter i believe autoglym when they say their mf is the best for their products and they have tested over 40. Autoglym imo are an honest reliable company and i am in this case happy to continue using their mf cloths based on their response. To be honest all i wanted was a response to my query from autoglym and i was a little peeved with i didnt get any in all honesty
Sorry for the long winded post and continued success too autoglym
regards
todds
From a detailers point off view this is not what is needed, when it comes to a towel its what is best for the paint. Whats best for paint and whats best for a product are chalk and cheese.
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Old 11-05-2017, 05:40 AM   #19
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From a detailers point off view this is not what is needed, when it comes to a towel its what is best for the paint. Whats best for paint and whats best for a product are chalk and cheese.
Good point cheekymonkey because if you had to buy a specific mf cloth for the removal of every different brand of polish or wax for example the cost would be huge and the sheer quantity of the different makes of cloths could fill a room
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Old 11-05-2017, 12:39 PM   #20
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Good point cheekymonkey because if you had to buy a specific mf cloth for the removal of every different brand of polish or wax for example the cost would be huge and the sheer quantity of the different makes of cloths could fill a room
regards
todds
But ultimately don't we buy on the basis of manufacturer recommendations I.e. suitable for product removal, suitable for buffing etc and reviews on here.

If for example 3 manufacturers said their cloths were the same gsm, made from South Korean yarn etc how would you decide which to buy ? I'd suggest probably the same as now relying on reputation and reviews

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