Using a P/W at a distance from a water butt - lots of pics!
Hello everyone, this is my first "big post" to DW - I've put it in here since this is where all the threads about rainwater harvesting are.
This first part is by way of an introduction / how I came to be on DW type of thing, so if you're just here for the pictures of pipes, scroll down to the header below
This year we replaced our trusty Hyundai i30 with a proper family-mobile, a Toyota Avensis estate, since child number 2 arrived in May. The Hyundai only ever got washed with a single bucket and sponge, or the occasional once over from one of the friendly Polish gentlemen at the local supermarket . The first wax it ever had was at the local car valet when we got it the £25 special to sell it! The Avensis would have suffered the same fate had the dealer not mentioned that it had "Jewelultra Diamondbrite" applied by the previous owner. I wondered what this actually was, punched it into Google and found this place, and a whole new world was opened up to me
So now I have two small children, a wife who would only ever take the car to the cheapest car wash she could find , and a new found desire to try and keep this new car, as ordinary as it might be compared to some on here, looking decent. So my first priority has to be a way to wash it without inflicting any more swirls; because of time pressure I was finding that even a careful two-bucket wash and dry was leaving marks on the metallic black finish. I needed something to help me get cleaner, quicker, and ideally eliminate drying altogether, at least for the regular "service wash". I needed POWER!
PLUMBING STARTS HERE!
Having convinced SWMBO that a power washer was a worthwhile thing to have, I wanted to work out how best to make use if it. The main point of getting the PW is to speed up the whole washing process. Detailing a car when you have a family is a tricky thing to find time for, so anything to speed it up is worth considering, and I knew if I could use rainwater in the PW, I could skip the drying process for "normal" washes, since it leaves almost no water spotting.
My Kränzle 7/122 was chosen because it was the cheapest Kränzle that would draw water from a static source. I have two linked 220 litre water butts at the back of the house...
which I use for the garden, unfortunately the drive where the car gets washed is ~10m away, so I needed a way to get the water to cover that distance and still maintain the minimum 7 litres per minute that the PW needs.
Now the docs say that the pipe between that static water source and the PW should be no more than 3m. So first, a test - what would I get from the standard tap? (Yellow hose, bottom left of the picture) A quick timed flow test through a metre of ordinary garden hose gave me 10l/min, which is enough, but didn't leave much headroom for a longer hose, a less full water butt, or an inline filter.
Given I needed more than 3x that length of hose, I had two choices - get a pump, or Go Large - and as the Americans say, there's no replacement for displacement!
In Simon's thread on this, he went to 19mm / ¾" ID hose, but a) he only had about 3m of hose and b) his 1000 litres IBC gives him more pressure. In order to be sure of enough flow, even when the water level is low, I decided to go with 25mm / 1" ID hose and fittings.
Now all the flow in the world is no use if the water is full of rubbish. The downpipe diverter...
has a steel mesh filter which should take out anything less than about 1mm, so I decided to put an oversized '50 mesh' filter in line with the hose, which should stop anything bigger than ~⅓mm. The settlement filtration of the two tanks should mean the water coming out of the second is pretty decent, and the large filter reduces the flow restriction to a minimum. The filter housing can readily be opened to rinse the stainless steel filter off - there's nothing to wear out or clog up
The downpipe is taking all the flow from the rear side of the house and when it rains really hard, the amount of water coming off the roof is considerable. I did have a smaller diverter on there but it couldn't cope with the flow and would soak the wall. The new diverter doesn't have this issue :thumb:
The camlock fittings Simon used are excellent in that they don't restrict the flow at all, give a good firm mechanical attachment and are very reliable (unlike the "Hozelock" fitting most garden hoses use) so I decided to use them (in 1" form) here. I've posted a list of parts and suppliers at the end - this should work for any water butt or tank where you have access to the rear of the hole to fix a back nut. The 90° bend stops the tap sticking out about a foot from the side of the tank (and reduces the strain, and hence the chance of leakage, at that joint).
The hose is reinforced PVC which is transparent and the only kind of tubing I could find for less than £3/m. Any 1" ID hose should do the trick though.
A few more photos of the installation:
The butts with linking pipe in place, and the site for the new tap marked.
Making the new hole - I didn't have the right drill bit to cut this hole in one go, so I drilled multiple holes with a 10mm bit and then trimmed out the remainder with a stanley knife, then enlarged it until I could start to engage the threads on the back of the tank boss, on the tank wall itself. This makes this join more mechanically robust since there is less room for the boss to flex, and it's gripping a larger area of tank. If you wanted to buy a bit to do this, I reckon you'd want a 30mm 'auger' type, which is what I've put in the kit list.
Tap assembly test fitted
Hose hooked up!
10m of 25mm ID hose - rolled up with some velcro straps I had handy. It's a lot stiffer and more awkward to handle than your average garden hose (although it would likely soften up in warmer weather) and it doesn't roll up very tightly.
So, having got the tap installed and the pipe rolled out, all that was left to do was test it. It filled a 16 litre bucket in 46 seconds, which works out to a flow rate of nearly 21 litres per minute! :doublesho And that with the water butts not even half full. I connected up the Kränzle...
...and after purging the airlock from the hose, it ran just fine. Haven't had chance to test it on the car yet .... next weekend's job!
Pros
*Cons
Another option would have been to just extend the high pressure hose. On the face of it this looks cheaper than the route I took, but in practice to run the PW off a water butt I'd still have to install an inline filter, and the flow restriction from this would probably make 19mm ID pipe necessary. You'd save a bit on the fittings being smaller, and on a shorter hose, but I don't think the difference would pay for a 10m extension. But if I'd wandered to do this for the absolute minimum upfront cost I would have bought a different machine to begin with :thumb:
References
What? Which one? From where? Qty?
Drill for water butt Auger bit, 30mm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUGER-BIT...hash=item3cbcdcf5e6:m:mux6uWpqDEVgEgdRskk2YOA x1
Water butt connector / boss "1"" male BSP thread" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-BSPM-ST...ECTOR-TAPS-FITTINGS-ACCESSORIES-/321653820453 x1
90 degree elbow "90 degree M/F 1"" BSP connector" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321742922...49&var=510647553436&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT x1
Ball valve "1"" female BSP thread" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PVC-1-Pie...-1-1-2-/111757248377?var=&hash=item1a05404779 x1
Male / Male nipple (joins two female threads) "1"" 2x male BSP" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-m-x-1-m-nipple-poly-bsp-8056251-p-1007.html x1
Male Camlock adaptor with female thread 1'' Part 'A', 1'' Camlock adapter X 1'' BSP female G/P/P http://www.cpp-lm.com/index.php?pag...ategory_id=16&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 x2
Camlock coupler with hose tail "1"" Part 'C', 1"" Camlock coupler x 1"" (25mm) hose tail G/P/P" http://www.cpp-lm.com/index.php?pag...ategory_id=26&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 x2
"1"" ID hose" PVC, polyester fibre reinforced http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161215474...49&var=460269242177&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT x1
Hosepipe in-line filter "1"" 50 Mesh 10 Bar In-Line Filter 3350-0058 (NPT threads)" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-50-mesh-10-bar-inline-filter-33500058-p-4839.html x1
Hose tails for filter "1"" NPT Male x 1"" Hose Barb 9901-HB100P" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-npt-male-x-1-hose-barb-9901hb100p-p-754.html x2
Jubilee clips 25-40mm Size 35 Hose Clip 502-1006 BZP http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/2540mm-size-35-hose-clip-5021006-p-4673.html x4
"Reducing bush (1"" to 3/4"" BSP) to connect to PW inlet" "Brass Reducing Bush Thread 1"" x 3/4""" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-bsp-m...ucing bush bsp&search_in_description=1&page=4 x1
Kit list
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Nrg14mAf8FQFeKpTpVsBksm-4MVQYHvnlObI3h6kA9c/edit?usp=sharing
Simon's Thread http://www.detailingworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261919
Bigpikle's sticky http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=101974
Hello everyone, this is my first "big post" to DW - I've put it in here since this is where all the threads about rainwater harvesting are.
This first part is by way of an introduction / how I came to be on DW type of thing, so if you're just here for the pictures of pipes, scroll down to the header below
This year we replaced our trusty Hyundai i30 with a proper family-mobile, a Toyota Avensis estate, since child number 2 arrived in May. The Hyundai only ever got washed with a single bucket and sponge, or the occasional once over from one of the friendly Polish gentlemen at the local supermarket . The first wax it ever had was at the local car valet when we got it the £25 special to sell it! The Avensis would have suffered the same fate had the dealer not mentioned that it had "Jewelultra Diamondbrite" applied by the previous owner. I wondered what this actually was, punched it into Google and found this place, and a whole new world was opened up to me
So now I have two small children, a wife who would only ever take the car to the cheapest car wash she could find , and a new found desire to try and keep this new car, as ordinary as it might be compared to some on here, looking decent. So my first priority has to be a way to wash it without inflicting any more swirls; because of time pressure I was finding that even a careful two-bucket wash and dry was leaving marks on the metallic black finish. I needed something to help me get cleaner, quicker, and ideally eliminate drying altogether, at least for the regular "service wash". I needed POWER!
PLUMBING STARTS HERE!
Having convinced SWMBO that a power washer was a worthwhile thing to have, I wanted to work out how best to make use if it. The main point of getting the PW is to speed up the whole washing process. Detailing a car when you have a family is a tricky thing to find time for, so anything to speed it up is worth considering, and I knew if I could use rainwater in the PW, I could skip the drying process for "normal" washes, since it leaves almost no water spotting.
My Kränzle 7/122 was chosen because it was the cheapest Kränzle that would draw water from a static source. I have two linked 220 litre water butts at the back of the house...
which I use for the garden, unfortunately the drive where the car gets washed is ~10m away, so I needed a way to get the water to cover that distance and still maintain the minimum 7 litres per minute that the PW needs.
Now the docs say that the pipe between that static water source and the PW should be no more than 3m. So first, a test - what would I get from the standard tap? (Yellow hose, bottom left of the picture) A quick timed flow test through a metre of ordinary garden hose gave me 10l/min, which is enough, but didn't leave much headroom for a longer hose, a less full water butt, or an inline filter.
Given I needed more than 3x that length of hose, I had two choices - get a pump, or Go Large - and as the Americans say, there's no replacement for displacement!
In Simon's thread on this, he went to 19mm / ¾" ID hose, but a) he only had about 3m of hose and b) his 1000 litres IBC gives him more pressure. In order to be sure of enough flow, even when the water level is low, I decided to go with 25mm / 1" ID hose and fittings.
Now all the flow in the world is no use if the water is full of rubbish. The downpipe diverter...
has a steel mesh filter which should take out anything less than about 1mm, so I decided to put an oversized '50 mesh' filter in line with the hose, which should stop anything bigger than ~⅓mm. The settlement filtration of the two tanks should mean the water coming out of the second is pretty decent, and the large filter reduces the flow restriction to a minimum. The filter housing can readily be opened to rinse the stainless steel filter off - there's nothing to wear out or clog up
The downpipe is taking all the flow from the rear side of the house and when it rains really hard, the amount of water coming off the roof is considerable. I did have a smaller diverter on there but it couldn't cope with the flow and would soak the wall. The new diverter doesn't have this issue :thumb:
The camlock fittings Simon used are excellent in that they don't restrict the flow at all, give a good firm mechanical attachment and are very reliable (unlike the "Hozelock" fitting most garden hoses use) so I decided to use them (in 1" form) here. I've posted a list of parts and suppliers at the end - this should work for any water butt or tank where you have access to the rear of the hole to fix a back nut. The 90° bend stops the tap sticking out about a foot from the side of the tank (and reduces the strain, and hence the chance of leakage, at that joint).
The hose is reinforced PVC which is transparent and the only kind of tubing I could find for less than £3/m. Any 1" ID hose should do the trick though.
A few more photos of the installation:
The butts with linking pipe in place, and the site for the new tap marked.
Making the new hole - I didn't have the right drill bit to cut this hole in one go, so I drilled multiple holes with a 10mm bit and then trimmed out the remainder with a stanley knife, then enlarged it until I could start to engage the threads on the back of the tank boss, on the tank wall itself. This makes this join more mechanically robust since there is less room for the boss to flex, and it's gripping a larger area of tank. If you wanted to buy a bit to do this, I reckon you'd want a 30mm 'auger' type, which is what I've put in the kit list.
Tap assembly test fitted
Hose hooked up!
10m of 25mm ID hose - rolled up with some velcro straps I had handy. It's a lot stiffer and more awkward to handle than your average garden hose (although it would likely soften up in warmer weather) and it doesn't roll up very tightly.
So, having got the tap installed and the pipe rolled out, all that was left to do was test it. It filled a 16 litre bucket in 46 seconds, which works out to a flow rate of nearly 21 litres per minute! :doublesho And that with the water butts not even half full. I connected up the Kränzle...
...and after purging the airlock from the hose, it ran just fine. Haven't had chance to test it on the car yet .... next weekend's job!
Pros
- No electric supply needed to the water butt
- No pump motor to fail
- Delivers enough water flow for the hungriest of power washers
- In line filtration means you could use this on a single water butt or tank (might need a finer in-line filter)
- Allows you to fill your wash buckets a lot faster than a normal tap
*Cons
- Relies on gravity ie the tank has to be higher than where you want to use the water
- 25mm hose is bulky and unwieldy
- Bigger fittings cost more!
Another option would have been to just extend the high pressure hose. On the face of it this looks cheaper than the route I took, but in practice to run the PW off a water butt I'd still have to install an inline filter, and the flow restriction from this would probably make 19mm ID pipe necessary. You'd save a bit on the fittings being smaller, and on a shorter hose, but I don't think the difference would pay for a 10m extension. But if I'd wandered to do this for the absolute minimum upfront cost I would have bought a different machine to begin with :thumb:
References
What? Which one? From where? Qty?
Drill for water butt Auger bit, 30mm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUGER-BIT...hash=item3cbcdcf5e6:m:mux6uWpqDEVgEgdRskk2YOA x1
Water butt connector / boss "1"" male BSP thread" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-BSPM-ST...ECTOR-TAPS-FITTINGS-ACCESSORIES-/321653820453 x1
90 degree elbow "90 degree M/F 1"" BSP connector" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321742922...49&var=510647553436&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT x1
Ball valve "1"" female BSP thread" http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PVC-1-Pie...-1-1-2-/111757248377?var=&hash=item1a05404779 x1
Male / Male nipple (joins two female threads) "1"" 2x male BSP" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-m-x-1-m-nipple-poly-bsp-8056251-p-1007.html x1
Male Camlock adaptor with female thread 1'' Part 'A', 1'' Camlock adapter X 1'' BSP female G/P/P http://www.cpp-lm.com/index.php?pag...ategory_id=16&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 x2
Camlock coupler with hose tail "1"" Part 'C', 1"" Camlock coupler x 1"" (25mm) hose tail G/P/P" http://www.cpp-lm.com/index.php?pag...ategory_id=26&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=53 x2
"1"" ID hose" PVC, polyester fibre reinforced http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161215474...49&var=460269242177&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT x1
Hosepipe in-line filter "1"" 50 Mesh 10 Bar In-Line Filter 3350-0058 (NPT threads)" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-50-mesh-10-bar-inline-filter-33500058-p-4839.html x1
Hose tails for filter "1"" NPT Male x 1"" Hose Barb 9901-HB100P" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-npt-male-x-1-hose-barb-9901hb100p-p-754.html x2
Jubilee clips 25-40mm Size 35 Hose Clip 502-1006 BZP http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/2540mm-size-35-hose-clip-5021006-p-4673.html x4
"Reducing bush (1"" to 3/4"" BSP) to connect to PW inlet" "Brass Reducing Bush Thread 1"" x 3/4""" http://www.malcleanse.co.uk/1-bsp-m...ucing bush bsp&search_in_description=1&page=4 x1
Kit list
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Nrg14mAf8FQFeKpTpVsBksm-4MVQYHvnlObI3h6kA9c/edit?usp=sharing
Simon's Thread http://www.detailingworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261919
Bigpikle's sticky http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=101974