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Old 18-06-2021, 05:17 PM   #11
djberney
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If the infrastructure was there to charge them in the UK it might help their cause. The only public charging in my town currently are slow chargers in supermarket car parks where you aren't allowed to park for more than 2 hours. Basically this will give you enough charge to get home. The local authorities are not interested in helping with the infrastructure. They want to introduce local pollution/ congestion charging as a way of increasing their revenue not as a way of reducing pollution. Even motorway speed limits are based on pollution allegedly. I say allegedly as if this was really the case then there would be no fines for pure EV's as they produce no local pollution.
In the UK at least there seems to be more stick than carrot to get people into EV and the hydrogen fuel cells seemed to have been forgotten even though they made more sense.
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Old 18-06-2021, 05:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy from Sandy View Post
Not every country has exorbitant amounts of tax on fuel. For us sadly as ICE cars disappear tax will be applied to EV cars in different ways.

Once a tax has been introduced it never goes away. We will almost certainly have pay per mile and that will be on top of VED.

At present battery power is the answer as a way to know where pollution will occur.
I’ve been saying for a long time that taxes will eventually be applied to EV cars and especially pay per mile. There is a person I know who has an EV car and is all smug as he says it’s cheap to run, tax and own and how he is saving the environment, I told him that EV cars won’t be as cheap to run and own as you would think as the tax man will eventually come knocking for his pound of flesh.
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Old 18-06-2021, 05:42 PM   #13
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The (company car) tax on EVs is already increasing, has been 0% for many years but this year it's 1% then 2% fixed for a number of years. Only a matter of time before it starts to increase in line with petrol and diesel being phased out.

Is it the future? Not sure but it's certainly gaining momentum. I suppose in much the same way that diesel did when petrol was around (for cars anyway).

I can actually see a future of mixed fuels in the same way as petrol/diesel but with electric and hydrogen. There are a number of trials for hydrogen powered vehicles at present - buses and cars mainly. So if you need short, frequent trips (petrol) then it's electric. Longer trips requiring a refill (diesel) then it's hydrogen.


I'm about to start my EV journey this year and a know of some employees at work who've almost been hoodwinked into perceived cost savings of EV coupled with a £50k car and a really low BIK; only to find the reality isn't the same. I suspect that's mainly down to lack of research as they think "filling" up on the road is cheap. Unless you have the ability to charge your EV at home (off peak and at a reduced rate) then the savings aren't there IMO.
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Old 18-06-2021, 10:16 PM   #14
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I would advise anyone considering an EV car to wait as long as possible. They are in their infant stages at the moment in my opinion. The range still isn't acceptable for many peoples needs. Technology will leap forward in the next five years. But it all relies on the infrastructure being there, which in it's current form is woefully inadequate. Look at Elon Musk, he made sure the Tesla infrastructure was in place first. See how many Tesla superchargers you see on any services, compared to other chargers. Also, like it or not, we will need to build many more nuclear power stations to supply the unimaginable demand in electricity when there are so many more EVs on the road.
Another interesting point is that there will only be a finite supply of lithium, so battery development will need to come on leaps and bounds.
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Old 19-06-2021, 02:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Snowglobe View Post
Is Battery Power the right solution for cars?

I've been thinking about this for a while now. If you start to consider why we are moving away from fossil fuels for cars and other general transport, then does your mind ask the question; what are the consequences around using millions of tons of elements for batteries instead of fossil fuels?
Do you wonder, if in 30 years time whether here will be a global impact on the materials used to manufacture batteries and also the impact on the environment of recycling batteries?
I'm not saying the movement is wrong, but I sometimes wonder if all the consequences have been researched, after all, looking back, asbestos was the future for many applications and then not many years later it's been found to be a killer and also a problem to remove and make safe.

Have a read of this at least.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5


Nothing is ever a wonder solution, is it?
In my opinion electric cars just got sweep into the whole club of rome agenda of making humans hate themselves by blaming all the problems on earth to mass population/pollution. They are not "clean" technology. Nice word play on the technocrats has usual. They are master wordsmiths.

I don't think we will have to worry about millions of electric cars replacing the ones we have now. Its much bigger then that, they openly discuss merging man with machine and having even single human being if there's is any left connected to the "Internet of things" or the "SMART" grid.

They are great wordsmiths.

Many people believe they decided to drop "dioxide" from "carbon dioxide emissions" because well obviously what do you think of when you hear "carbon"? Black.

Carbon dioxide emissions or Carbon emissions?

What one sounds worst?

Hence "Carbon Tax" Even though plants breath carbon DIOXIDE and its not black.

Last edited by noorth; 19-06-2021 at 02:51 AM.
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Old 19-06-2021, 06:58 AM   #16
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I think hybrid is the way forward, battery around town and battery and fuel (hydrogen or petrol) for the longer journey.

As its already been mentioned the amount of tax the government get from petrol/diesel is HUGE i think its about 85 - 90p of every litre goes to the government (Iím not entirely sure the correct amount) if we all start driving electric cars whereís that going to come from?

How green are these cars? Something has to be dug up processed, manufactured and at its life end disposed of, and shipping these Ďgreen cars around the world cant be green and at the end of the day something has to produce electricity to charge these vehicles how green is that?

The manufacturers want us buying a new car on a hire agreement every 3 years (rather than buying a car and keeping 10 years) so there is the first problem everyone wants new!

Just remember it wasnít that long ago we were told to buy a diesel.........
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Old 19-06-2021, 08:27 AM   #17
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Once petrol and diesel is banned, whichever party is in power will need to find new ways of recovering a £40Billion shortfall. £40Billion!
Lets not kid ourselves, the motorist will be expected to make that up via road pricing at a ridiculous level and VED will go through the roof!

We will be back to the early days of cars when only the rich could afford a car as it was a luxury. Dont get me wrong, we do need to move forward into new technologies but we will have to pay through the nose until a viable and sustainable alternative is found.
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Old 19-06-2021, 08:37 AM   #18
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They are in their infant stages at the moment in my opinion. The range still isn't acceptable for many peoples needs. Technology will leap forward in the next five years.
As a user of lithium batteries in radio controlled models I have seen nothing really change and certainly not what I would call a step change in over 10 years.

It has always been that if you want more power then you pay in extra weight.
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Old 19-06-2021, 08:52 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy from Sandy View Post
As a user of lithium batteries in radio controlled models I have seen nothing really change and certainly not what I would call a step change in over 10 years.

It has always been that if you want more power then you pay in extra weight.
Seen the BYD busses in a year adding an extra 20 mile to their range with a similar weight and size of battery pack, that doesnít sound much, but if you realise that is nearly 20% increase in a relatively short time.

CAR wise Kia Niro has a range stated of 282 real life miles (whatcar).
At this moment in time my daily mileage doesnít exceed 190 miles, but the average in the UK is 10.000 mile a year, counting 200 working days that is only 50 mile a day.
I guess most of us donít drive that a day.

Yes we are going to pay for it, but doesnít make it a different if we pay 40 billion through fuel and road tax, or we pay it as a charge per mile?
The situation actually doesnít change, you are still paying the same but call it something else.
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Old 19-06-2021, 09:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caledoniandream View Post
Regarding charging, we are in general never more than 15 meter from an electric feed cable.
Curb side charging would be not to much a difficulty, flip curb open and plug your car in, login and pay, not millions miles away.
I see this as the biggest stumbling block for the success of EV. The infrastructure isnít there and wonít be there for years!

Itís fine if you stay in a house with driveway and can install a charging point. Iím fortunate enough that I could do just this.

However, I was talking about this with a friend of mine who lives in a flat in the middle of town. No designated parking space, takes a space where he can get it and sometimes that can be one or two streets away from his building. He is surrounded by flats/tenements, some with off-street parking most itís just parking at side of the road. The whole of the town is flats with 4-5 storeys minimum.

So youíre talking about digging up every street/parking area to put facilities in for EV charging. Every single space where a car can park needs to be set up with a charging point. That is a massive undertaking, hugely disruptive and will cost a fortune. And that is every city/town/village etc in the UK. The UK isnít like places such as America, most of our towns are massively populated areas with apartment blocks.

Then onceís itís set up, you have so many other factors to contend with - maintenance, standardising a connector, payment method, security of the charge point(a key/locked flaps etc), vandalism, reliability - (a whole streetís supply trips during the night and everyone wakes up to an uncharged car!)

I donít know enough about hydrogen and know that there must be big drawbacks to it but I think hydrogen or a electric/hydrogen hybrid might be the real way-ahead. Al least from an infrastructure point of view. Converting or adding to regular filling stations or building hydrogen only refuelling stations sounds a lot easier than digging up every street in the uk.

Not to mention that there will still be huge amounts of ICE vehicles on the road who still want to park for many years to come.

Obviously this is just my opinion and Iím painting a worst case scenario but itís a great talking point!
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