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How much horsepower do you really need??

25K views 52 replies 24 participants last post by  JordanE 
#1 ·
I came across this the other day and it was an interesting read. Interesting point on the electronics.

Motorcycling will always be one of those things where mostest is best. Forget octane ratings and rpm, we should measure biking by TPM - testosterone per minute. Imagine if we approached life in the same way, we’d all be wearing trousers with ten legs – accepting that while we didn’t actually need the additional eight, ‘it’s good to ‘have the extra fabric to get me out of trouble’ Maybe we’d pay extra too for ‘Flaption control’ to stop those extra legs causing aerodynamic drag when we ran faster than 5mph.

A few years back I was involved in a fascinating feature demonstrating how much of our bike’s horsepower we actually used. We took four very different bikes; a Suzuki GSX-R600, Yamaha XJR1300, Honda ST1100 Pan European and Harley V-Rod, fitted them with state of the art datalogging equipment and measured how much throttle was used and how much horsepower around a 50-mile blast on our favourite roads. The bikes were chosen for their difference in character, but also because they all made around 100bhp.

To make the test more interesting we used the most talented rider in Corby – a racer and stunt rider who was more likely to use more throttle than we were.

The results were fascinating. The XJR1300 was the only bike to use more than 70bhp, peaking at 89bhp, but only for about ten seconds in the 48 minutes it took to complete the route. The Pan European had the highest average power-used figure at 43.8bhp and the GSX-R600, being ridden by a fast racer averaged just 29bhp and never got above 50bhp once.

He was as surprised as we were, reporting that he’d had the Suzuki’s needle in the red for much of the time. Thing is… you can hit the red line on any bike at far less than full throttle. Try it next time you’re out – hold the throttle about a third open in the lower gears and see how quickly you hit the limiter.

And that’s where it gets confusing because revs don’t equal power unless you’re at full throttle. Why does this matter? Well, thank you for sticking with me for 365 words, here’s the point.

A few weeks back I was reading a thread on social media about sports bike electronics. Opinion was split as to whether they were a good or bad thing and it didn’t take long for some online hero to explain how ‘now bikes like his make 200bhp, they’d be unrideable without all these electronics’.

I might have missed something here, but back in the bad old days when a decent sports bike only made 180bhp and had no electronic restriction I don’t remember every ride being peppered with cartwheeling R1s and Fireblades highsiding themselves into oblivion. Most crashes not involving a SMIDSY car driver had a rider misjudging a corner, hitting the front brake, which stood the bike up and ran them wide into a ditch. Now it’s possible that cornering ABS might have saved that, but traction control would be irrelevant because in that crash, the throttle is shut.

The boffins that did our 100bhp feature all those years ago explained what happens very clearly. On the road you use your throttle (and therefore power) to accelerate up to a certain speed and then back off, holding a steady throttle to maintain that speed. It needs a certain amount of power to achieve that speed, but once there, you only need a whiff of throttle to overcome the airflow and maintain momentum. Arrive at a corner and you need to slow down. Once through the corner, you accelerate up to speed again.

The reason our heavy tourer used almost twice as much power as the sports bike is because at every corner on our very twisty route it had to slow down more (because it was heavy and handled much worse) and consequently, then had to accelerate harder to get back up to speed, which used more power.

The good-handling sports bike had to slow down much less for the corners and so needed less power to accelerate back up to speed. So, in order to use our bikes most efficiently, Honda should be making 200bhp Pan Europeans and 60bhp Fireblades.

Which is, of course, exactly what we are getting with the latest generation of traction control. TC is a metaphor for power restriction. It allows a manufacturer to build a 200bhp motorcycle to satisfy the marketing dept and their customers’ machismo trouser requirements, but then electronically restrict it in order that, should anyone who buys it actually be clumsy enough to use more than half that power, the restrictors will cut in and make up for their lack of talent. Not only that, but they can charge us extra money for the privilege. Genius.

On track, of course, the situation is very different. Our boffins explained that any racer or wannabbee track day hero - safe in the knowledge that all they have to do is get to the next corner faster than everyone else - should be aiming to use either full throttle or no throttle all the time, anything else is the behaviour of a dithering loser. And that’s where the electronics come in. Because if you or me, with a lifetime of smoothly using 29bhp on the road to go faster than we ever dreamed, suddenly gets giddy and finds the guts to unleash the full potential of our engines, then, yes, maybe, if that potential is 150bhp-plus, we might just need an electronic version of ‘perhaps this throttle should go the other way now’.

What’s needed here is a bold manufacturer, prepared to build a bike that makes relatively low peak power, but delivers it in a way that helps us use more of it. Funnily enough a mate of mine is currently looking to buy an ancient Honda VFR400. Imagine if there was a modern version of that bike? A 500cc V-four making 80bhp and weighing 140kg. sounds brilliant to me.

And a trip the other week on KTM’s new 790 Duke showed it to be exactly that kind of bike Not too much power, but all delivered in a huge great slug of drive in a chassis that made life feel very, very exciting.
 
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#36 ·
One thing that power does do is make the driving or riding experience easier when you have plenty of useable low down torque. You then have less stressed components and possibly a machine that's going to be good for covering higher mileage. Power can allow you to get out of danger quicker, safer overtakes too etc.

If riding or driving at legal speeds though you don't need a high figure, but you may want a higher figure for the reasons above and rightly so. Obviously if you are riding or driving on a track then go for as much as you can exploit plus a bit extra.

I have my Up GTI, 115hp as standard so not a high number by today's standards but I find it an entertaining car to drive. I have a Honda SH300, only 25hp but still great fun darting around town and away from the lights but if I was to ride it 200 miles up the A1 it would be less appealing and less suited to the job, even though it could do it. My CB1000R has about 140hp, which is at the lower end these days by 1000cc standards. It is useful having a lot of useable power in the midrange though, even if just at the national limit.
 
#37 ·
I have a 2018 Suzuki SV650 with its Twin engine 75bhp.
The only thing it has is ABS. As that’s legal requirement.
I love the thing, Sunday thrashes, commuting 35miles to work , slipping through traffic I feel like the fastest thing on Earth.
I go out with my biker mates quiet a lot and that’s when my 75bhp feels like 10. One rides a Kawasaki z1000sx the other Kawasaki 1400,
Mines naked, so long trips to Poole bike night does tire me out. My next bike will be a 1000 mainly for the ease of overtaking in higher gears, wind protection, and the weight. I certainly know when a lorry goes past and blows the bike.
Obviously comparing my bike to a 1000 is chalk and cheese but tbh if money was no object I’d have both. I really like the S1000r naked, s1000xr, rs1250 etc. Sports tourer Is on the cards. As long as it has ABS I’m not too interested in rider modes and stuff as I don’t miss what I don’t have now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#38 ·
I have a 2018 Suzuki SV650 with its Twin engine 75bhp.
The only thing it has is ABS. As that's legal requirement.
I love the thing, Sunday thrashes, commuting 35miles to work , slipping through traffic I feel like the fastest thing on Earth.
I go out with my biker mates quiet a lot and that's when my 75bhp feels like 10. One rides a Kawasaki z1000sx the other Kawasaki 1400,
Mines naked, so long trips to Poole bike night does tire me out. My next bike will be a 1000 mainly for the ease of overtaking in higher gears, wind protection, and the weight. I certainly know when a lorry goes past and blows the bike.
Obviously comparing my bike to a 1000 is chalk and cheese but tbh if money was no object I'd have both. I really like the S1000r naked, s1000xr, rs1250 etc. Sports tourer Is on the cards. As long as it has ABS I'm not too interested in rider modes and stuff as I don't miss what I don't have now.
I quite fancied a Z1000SX, there are some great deals to be had on the 19MY atm. Most likely the sort of thing that I'll go for next.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Does anyone remember the issue of (I think) "Ride" magazine where they took a fair few bikes to Donington and whizzed them round the circuit and did brake tests etc?

If I remember correctly a 125 Honda was only a second or so slower than a 1000cc super sportsbike. It was, however, ridden by Rob Haslam :lol: I don't think RH rode the big bike for comparison. ;)

Skill, talent, knowledge, experience and training all add up.

See how many bikes end up in a ditch after the rider's been to a Moto GP/Superbikes race. :doublesho

Andy.
 
#46 · (Edited)
BHP for me not a consideration for enjoyment.

Plus im not a fan of electronic lean abs, round corner lights certainly not electronic suspension, just more to go wrong in my eyes.

I personally wish new riders would learn on the simplest bikes i know they will often at the 125 end but direct access can lead to actually just been reliant on the electronics.

For me two wheels and and an engine ill ride it and enjoy it, including push bike with an engine slapped on.

Ill ride 50cc to whatever, not interested in sports bikes though.

I started off and always wanted more speed rode a turbo zzr1100 crazy well over 200mph.
Decided hey speed is not the thing.

I have rode many of the new bikes over the last 5 years enjoyed many came close, very very close to purchasing some of them.

Wife would love a big comfy pillion seat on the BMW K1600 i love the RT with its ability to run smoothly in top at 30mph and carry it smoothly all the way upto lots.

But modern bikes although stunning performers on the whole will do just the same everyday stuff of bikes 30 years old.

My year 2000 BMW R1100R handles fine solo and two up with full luggage i enjoy it solo or two up.

I enjoy My Suzuki DR350 1999 vintage.

I enjoy the yamaha D'light 115cc.

Also the Peugeot Ludix 50cc

Ive enjoyed the Piaggio X9 250 and the X9 500.

Im sure i will enjoy the 2009 Street Triple 675 R i just got.

Although it seams the blokes at work say no more excuses ive got to do a track day, so now i need leathers for the track having not worn any for 30 years plus the adventure boots i love wont do for on the Street Triple or the track, more expense.

Still cheaper than a brand new bike mind.

Oh My Good Lady Loves Her Suzuki TU250X 1999 Vintage.
 
#47 ·
My bike is a ‘boring’ highish mileage Suzuki Gladius with all of 70bhp. In my opinion it’s all the power that’s ever needed. Only time the throttle is opened is to overtake. And it can do that quicker than any car I’ve ever owned. It’s a safe amount of power but the vtwin torque gives it the flexibility that 4 cyl can only dream of. For me it’s exciting enough. A big 200bhp superbike could only be downright scary and it would feel pointless and frustrating on the public roads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#48 ·
My bike is a 'boring' highish mileage Suzuki Gladius with all of 70bhp. In my opinion it's all the power that's ever needed. Only time the throttle is opened is to overtake. And it can do that quicker than any car I've ever owned. It's a safe amount of power but the vtwin torque gives it the flexibility that 4 cyl can only dream of. For me it's exciting enough. A big 200bhp superbike could only be downright scary and it would feel pointless and frustrating on the public roads.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Horses for courses I suppose, nothing wrong with the Gladius, horse power wise if we all thought the same we would all be driving the same car with 60 hp instead of amg45, rs focus and the like.
 
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