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Old 14-12-2007, 02:40 AM   #1
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Dodo Juice Lime Prime - product and politics unravelled

Hi guys

I have been away on holiday for a couple of weeks, so not been able to do much more than log in occasionally from internet cafes. Anyway, thanks to pj for holding the fort somewhat and for helping with Coxy's DW meet. A few points were brought up in another thread, and although most points were heard out and dealt with by forum members (thanks all ) it is always worth having a recap for those who are interested. Unfortunately, hidden agendas and politics came into play, so the thread widened in subject matter, but I will never shy away from a grilling or a sly comment as we don't have anything to hide. (Unlike certain people who use fake log-ins. )


We have always said, from its very conception, that Lime Prime contains micro-abrasives. You will find that many 'pre-wax cleansers' do. In fact, as Rubbishboy points out, if you look at the ingredients for HDC and then cross-reference Kapolite (similar to kaolite, kaolin etc), this ingredient may also have mild abrasive properties Any product with any kind of abrasive will be a friend or a foe when used, depending on a variety of factors in how it's used; as pj says, we extensively tested the product and sought counsel from many detailers to see whether it was too mild or too strong. They said it was just right, so we went with the current formula. Why did we make it mildly abrasive rather than just a cleaner fluid? Well, it allows for better cleaning properties, especially in terms of removing previous wax layers, and many detailers like the mild cutting action. It certainly isn't unusual in being a pre-wax cleanser that is also a mild polish. We know of rival products causing problems due to their abrasiveness, despite some people eulogising about them being completely safe - few products are, especially when human beings make and use them. The simple fact is that for the vast majority of users, Lime Prime does work (better than similar products according to many), and is safe to use on virtually all paint finishes 99+% of the time. No-one will claim 100% safety or success with polishes, because of the wide variation in paint finishes, methods of application and even atmospheric conditions when they are being applied. For us, a couple of cases where Lime Prime hasn't worked for customers is a couple too many, but it will be largely unavoidable when 1000's of cars have already been primed by amateur and professional detailers to date. Please try the product for yourself, on a small area first if unsure, and come to your own conclusions. We have had overwhelmingly positive feedback at all levels and stand by the product absolutely. For a small company to create (rather than just rebottle, as one major manufacturer does) a bespoke polish/pre-wax cleanser that is now considered 'best in class' by many, for about half the price of the 'benchmark' competitor is a credit to our chemist partners and of benefit to all consumers.


Because even the mildest polishes worry some people, we will do a version of LP at some point early next year that will be completely free of any kind of abrasive and will basically be a pure glaze. It was, however, important for us to launch Lime Prime in a very general formula to begin with.


When comparing one polish or pre-wax cleanser to another, it is always difficult to tell what is cause and what is effect. One pro-detailer told me that he thought LP was rather TOO good at unmasking swirls already in the paint. In some instances, it may seem like Lime Prime is causing swirls when really it is unmasking them. So many products contain fillers, it is difficult to know what product is hiding them, what is unmasking them and what is creating them. It is a matter of fact that any polish has the capacity to swirl or scratch, but that sometimes the cause may be unrelated to the polish itself as there are so many variables (applicator, MF used for removal etc.).


Ultimately, wax can be applied to any clean painted surface and if the surface is fully polished, there will be far less benefit in applying Lime Prime first. Some people like to do so, others don't. If worried about applying more abrasives (even if very mild) to the surface, then don't use Lime Prime and go straight to the wax.


All Dodo waxes are batch numbered. Because Lime Prime is easier to manufacture (there is no 'setting' involved) and far more consistent to make, there is no need to batch number Lime Prime, at least not when we make about 100 units at a time and know which 4 or 5 resellers end up with that batch. When we make 100,000 units per day, in 8 or 9 different plants, or churn the products out to thousands of resellers like the worldwide mass market manufacturers do, then the situation will be different. However, it would do no harm to batch number Lime Prime, so we may end up doing so, just as an extra measure of quality control. We test any product returned back to us, but have been extremely happy so far with the quality of all our products and the quality control systems. We are also happy with the labelling and market positioning of Lime Prime. It says it's a pre-wax cleanser, it is. It says it contains micro-abrasives, it does. It says it can be applied by hand or machine, it can. In skilled hands, better results may be achieved by machine, but you can't write a guide to detailing on the back of a label.


It is a very British thing to have a pop at people or companies doing well, so we take the sniping comments by Lucy and the comments made by 'her' friends in our stride; they show we must be doing something right (at least the marketing ), especially in so short a time. Sure, pj and I have never professed to be detailing kings or pc wielding maniacs; we're just amateur detailing enthusiasts and professional wax manufacturers (it's why we pay close attention to the opinions of the very best detailers in the country to make sure the products are good and doing what they're meant to). And yes, it has been just over 6 months since launch, or 5 minutes in wax making history terms (not counting reseach and development time). But that's like saying Lewis Hamilton has to be a poor driver as he only started last season or Yahoo must be better than Google as it has been around longer And if we have already achieved a lot that people like in '5 mins' what will the next hour hold? You'll have to wait and see. The new Doublewax, and other future products, will be the reward to our friends, customers and stalkers(!) and we sincerely hope that Lucy leaves these products well alone and leaves their enjoyment to others

All the best
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Old 14-12-2007, 06:32 AM   #2
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As you say, always someone trying to knock a winner in this country!!.
Keep up the good work and great products DW members know the score.Merry x mas Lee.
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Old 14-12-2007, 08:01 AM   #3
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Thanks for the clarification Dom - Lucy and "her" mates seem to be another cyber cell of saddos and we are on the case to establish exactly who "she" really is
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Old 14-12-2007, 08:28 AM   #4
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thanks for the info. i will certainly try LP next time i was my car
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Old 14-12-2007, 09:08 AM   #5
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Thanks for the clarity.

As I'm about to become a new LP user, it would also be helpful if you could provide your 'best practice' guide to using the product by hand and machine, as while several pro's have given their experiences it would be great to hear it straight from the Dodo's mouth
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Old 14-12-2007, 09:20 AM   #6
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Dodo Rules, end of
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Old 14-12-2007, 09:24 AM   #7
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good post and clarification
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Old 14-12-2007, 09:33 AM   #8
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I think that should just about cover all the angles

EDIT: Oh, and welcome back to the cold Dom
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Old 14-12-2007, 10:20 AM   #9
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Nice post Dom, thank!
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Old 14-12-2007, 10:23 AM   #10
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Yep Dom.. Thanks for the honest and clear post. It is great to hear honest views from a company and unfortunatly as usual some people try to scupper a good thing. With an honest approach to business like that I wish U and PJ all the best in the future as it is a great product!!!
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