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Eco Friendly Detailing Talk About all your Eco Products here - Waterless wash / Steam cleaning etc |
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#1 |
I'm not addicted...I'm NOT!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Britain's most Easterly town - Lowestoft
Posts: 4,430
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ONR Wash & Shine - a General Guide and FAQ
Hello Folks,
(1) Introduction to ONR Wash & Shine Optimum No-Rinse is one product in our armoury of cleaning materials that appears to defy logic. Because of this, and the way that it can and does challenge a few established practices, it tends to raise many questions, some of which I'll attempt to answer here. Although this FAQ was originally written for V2, it is still valid guidance for the 2012 Version 3. Personally this product has been a revelation that has enabled me to easily maintain my own vehicle, Tia's Taxi. This without the need for a lot of cumbersome paraphernalia including, for most of the year, obviating the need for buckets of suds. Now, 18 months since my first use in 2009, I'm confident enough to assemble this FAQ. ![]() Tia's Taxi given an ONR wash after return from wheel refurb Sept 2013 (2) What is ONR? If you're looking for a versatile cleaning product that could qualify as the first thing you'd grab in almost any given dirt removal situation, it would probably be ONR. It is a rinseless wash product, meaning that it relies on its polymers. By coating the surface and the dirt, they act as a lubricant to prevent marring when using wash media that may scratch when used with other wash potions. Also, they keep the wash water clean, though some fine clays can defeat this. However, for many people, getting to a point of trusting it might take a bit of a leap of faith. Probably, the first sharp intake of breath is in wondering: Just how does such a thin liquid actually work to protect the surface? There's probably a very scientific answer to that question; all I need say is that the list of satisfied users just grows. (3) ONR can be used as...
This list is by no means exhaustive! Note also that I have not used the word "shampoo" in any of its attributes! To call ONR a shampoo is in my opinion a complete misnomer. There are few similarities between ONR and a wash and wax car shampoo. However, it's also no over-statement to say that if you were given a choice of just one liquid cleaning product to be left with, it would probably be this. ONR is a technology that seems to work best with another 21stC offering, the microfibre cloth. (4) ONR provides...
(5) Spray, dwell time, then wipe There is one "rule of thumb" with ONR, once it's applied you _must_ allow it to dwell a while before any physical wiping contact is made. Even if you don't do a pre-spray, do at least squeeze out some liquid from the wash media over the surface to be cleaned, then slowly count to 15 _before_ contact is made. Did I mention the dwell time? You see, I cannot over-emphasise this aspect, so if you take nothing else away from this missive, please see this as your key to success. If you spray and then immediately wipe, which I admit can be very tempting, then I'll guarantee that you will be working against yourself; be prepared for some disappointment with the results, including marring! ONR = spray, dwell, then wipe! If needs be, don't be shy in applying a second spraying - it's about making the product do most if not all of the hard work. (6) Will ONR mar my paint? Marring is mostly the result of heavy-handed use or carelessness with the wash media. Or possibly, the result of familiarity or impatience, leading to these. It's probably easier to mar the paint with a _dry_ MF cloth or a very foamy wash liquid than it is to do it with ONR. Foamy suds can easily lead to a false sense of security, leading us to expect too much protection from them by pressing a tad harder than intended. ONR has very little foam, so it holds an inherent and constant reminder that contact must always be gentle. If at _any_ point you feel the need to rub, stop! It'll always be your technique, not the product that'll need revision. (7) Is ONR an exact replacement car shampoo? It can be. However, if you were to use it that way, you would be defeating its purpose. ONR is often described as a "waterless wash" - personally, I'd describe it as a "less water" wash. Depending on the level of dirt, you could use as little as 300ml or maybe no more than 6 to 8 litres of water on an average sized car. If there is a product that renders the two-bucket method almost redundant, it's ONR. Yes, I know what I'm seriously challenging! One of the most common reports is the surprise people express on how the dirt just rinses out of the sponge (yes sponge!) and simply falls to the bottom of the _one_ bucket! Bucket after cleaning off farm muck ![]() Do bear with me, all will be explained. I've already hinted that ONR challenges some established practices; these are replaced by just as careful ideas. The challenge is to protect the paint and make this easier to achieve! This is a 21stC product, and properly used it can easily consign the 2BM to being an outdated 1990's routine. IMO continuing with the 2BM using ONR is risky and a waste on all sorts of levels. The whole point of this technology is to _safely_ reduce water usage and make the job easier. Most, if not all, of the OPT product range is designed to make maintaining a vehicle very simple and quick. With ONR being such a thorough cleaner, it seems pointless to add complexity to a simplified process. (8) Why is ONR not a Waterless Wash? Most of the products that fall into this category are liquids applied to the paint directly from the factory container, with no dilution and only need a wipe with say a dampened microfibre cloth. OPT have another product called "Opti-Clean" which falls into this category. ONR on the other hand can be used with a wide variety of dilution ratios. It's therefore much more economical in use. Its eco-friendly credentials come not only from less water use, ONR's chemical content is also environmentally safer than most. (9) Can I use ONR like a Waterless Wash? Most definitely! The only time when you probably shouldn't is when road salt is present. For many months I have successfully used ONR with nothing more than the QD strength liquid applied from a spray-bottle. This, gently wiped away with a number of damp MF cloths. If carrying buckets of suds to your wash site is a problem, or you need to get to a show without the car being on a trailer, using this method to clean the car is ideal. There's a link to my "Bucketless wash method using ONR" guide at the bottom of this post. (10) What are the dilution ratios? If you are resident in the UK and Europe, you can completely ignore those suggested on the bottle. The reason being that US water hardness can be up to and over 5 times the PPM figures found here! Using the US dilution rates in the UK is not only wasteful, it'll probably lead to some smearing. What follows are only guidelines for the UK and Europe. It isn't necessary to measure ONR to the ml, though careful measuring is recommended! Mostly it will be a case of trial and error mainly controlled by how hard or soft your water is locally. Do please note this; it definitely is not a case of one dilution rate suits all! For use as a pre-spray... along with QD uses, dilution can be as strong as 32 to 1, though with soft or softened water it can go to anything up to 64 to 1. A stronger dilution will _not_ increase the cleaning potency of ONR! Assuming the cap from a 32oz bottle to be about 15ml, 32:1 will be...
In the wash bucket... in a soft water area it can be as low as 1 capful per 5L of water. Maximum, for a hard water area, would probably be 2 capfuls. Also, don't be tempted to err on the side of caution when mixing. In a soft water area you can actually have too strong a wash-mix which will work against you. This will not only interfere with the effectiveness of the surfactants, it could also cause some smearing! (11) Did you really mean: Use a Sponge? With ONR, using a fleece wash-mitt or long-pile MF cloth can cause severe rinsing problems and a risk of marring! They will quickly be overwhelmed with dirt particles that are a devil to dislodge, even with enthusiastic rinsing! So, using a sponge is a viable option. Not just any old sponge however, especially not a firm cellulose one! A soft "grouting sponge" like those from B&Q is the best bet. OPT have introduced a foam wash-mitt specifically for use with ONR. The Zymol Sponge also comes recommended. (See Key Links at post bottom). Again, nothing hard and fast here, so a microfibre noodle mitt might suit you better. It's probable that there will be some discolouration of the noodles, caused by ONR's polymers. This won't cause marring or lower the effectiveness of the wash. The colour will soon be restored through a normal detergent wash. Do this in a bucket or sink, prior to it going into the machine. The rinse water can appear a bit scary. Personally, I would limit the use of plain MF cloths to the final drying wipe. Even then, I'd dampen them with ONR first. Don't underestimate the power of MF cloths to gather dirt, especially when they are dry! (12) What's the best washing technique? The sheer versatility of ONR means there is wide scope for experimentation and a wide variety of techniques. Probably the best starting point is to follow BigPikle's video. (See Key Links at post bottom) That should at least help you to build your confidence in its abilities. Working panel by panel, with small overlaps on the unwashed areas, the starting point is to use a pre-spray of ONR, at QD strength according to how hard or soft your water is locally. Allow the pre-spray to dwell a while - the delay between spraying and wiping allows the product to do its work and it'll make all the difference between making the job quick and easy, or possibly being left with some residual dirt. Keeping to a safe wash method means using the wash media to apply as much liquid as _needed_ in a contactless fashion. (Don't overdo it!) Allowing it extra time to do what it does best, i.e. get into and under the dirt, means physical contact can be limited to just one wiping pass, even on dirtier surfaces. This will probably only come with practice, so don't risk marring your paint trying to achieve this first time! Try and keep to straight lines when wiping. If the car is quite dirty, use vertical downward strokes only so that you use the liquid to gently "push" away the dirt. Using straight lines is preferable to indiscriminate wipes in all directions. Let me issue a clear challenge here. Try and see just how lightly your touch with the wash media can be. To all intents and purposes, if you are having to apply any pressure, particularly if it's over and above the weight of the wash media, then there is probably something wrong. Often, it's too short a dwell time. Step back and relax! For the dreaded jobs, such as cleaning off dead bugs, (see key link below) the dwell time is absolutely essential! Some patience with possibly a 2nd spraying and you'll be rewarded with need of very little effort beyond that. In difficult areas, like grilles, or in extreme circumstances you may need to gently agitate the liquid with a brush. You could also do this if in a hurry, but in fact the short dwell delay usually makes that extra work redundant. Where my technique differs markedly from BigPikle is that instead of using a drying towel for my final wipe, I use a clean MF cloth, lightly dampened with ONR from the pre-spray bottle. (About 6 sprays per side) Should there be any dirt remaining, you are at least tackling it in the safest possible way. To my mind the biggest risk of creating swirls is at the drying stage, especially using _dry_ MF towels! Using ONR as a QD drying aid is definitely the safest way to approach this task. The dampened MF cloth and ONR working together bring out the best qualities of each technology. ONR will leave a very thin polymer coating of its own - a ready base for another QD product, or a wax / sealant. There is also something very satisfying in watching the ONR evaporate after the dampened MF wipe. (13) Can I use ONR in Winter? Absolutely! Because of its "less water" properties, you may have many more opportunities for washing, where "getting out the gear" may otherwise be impractical. You'll certainly have much less water on the ground afterwards. One danger to avoid with the "less water" approach is that you don't use enough to fully dissolve the road salt. Beware, if salt is only partly dissolved, it can be an almost invisible abrasive as sharp as sand! Apply a pre-spray of ONR at 32:1 and let it dwell. Test to see if it's ready by a quick 2nd spraying - if there's dirt movement, it's ready. Then suspend the wash media over the area to be cleaned and squeeze out _some_ of the liquid, waving it out over the area to be wiped. Allow another short dwell period. Then very gently wipe, small areas at a time, before rinsing out. It should be possible to limit the wiping pass to just one. That's just a matter of practice. Once you're confident that it's clean, give it a final wipe with an ONR dampened MF cloth. Drying time will obviously be a tad longer, but there won't be any water spots. (14) Will ONR destroy my wash-media? No more than any other product will. The constant soaking / drying cycles produce their own stresses and it's unlikely that ONR will exacerbate this. Wash media not recommended include fleece mitts, deep pile MF cloths and MF covered sponges. (15) The dirt didn't come off first time - why not? Two important points immediately spring to mind...
always with the emphasis upon the dwell time. As soon as I say, "Now you have a go" - what happens? I get a demonstration of spray & wipe ![]() It's probably very easy to get carried away with this apparent "wonder liquid". So much so that expectations can become a tad too high. Quite often, like with the removal of squashed bugs, all it needs is a 2nd spraying and a little longer to dwell. Just don't be frightened to experiment, as long as you avoid rubbing, you won't do any damage. If you're tempted to apply pressure over and above the weight of your wash media - stop! The answer is in this section. (16) Can ONR be used for Contactless Washing? No! I'm very definite about this answer because to say otherwise would be to try and promote ONR beyond its known and thoroughly tested uses. Although it will be excellent at getting into and behind the dirt, there is no other method of making that most important judgement call over whether or not to use a second pre-spray application than making that first physical wipe. (17) Can I use ONR as a clay lubricant? The way that ONR provides its lubrication and its resistance to evaporation makes it an excellent clay-lube. When used with a clay cloth, ONR's cleaning capabilities really come to the fore! (18) Is ONR safe on glass and windscreens? The answer is a qualified yes. The reason for my hesitation is that the polymers that ONR leaves behind can interfere with and reduce the slickness of some nano-technology treatments such as gTechniq G1 / G3. Where these have been used, it's probably best to only use a plain water dampened MF cloth for your screen cleaning. These treatments are pretty effective at resisting dirt anyway. Otherwise, ONR will make a very effective glass cleaner. Use a dampened MF cloth in one hand and a dry one in the other, after a light spray of QD strength on the glass. If there's soiling and it evaporates, apply a 2nd spraying before wiping. (19) Is ONR LSP safe? Yes! Not only that, it has its own polymers that provide a little protection and reflectivity of their own. This is nothing more than a microscopic layer that will afford no more than a very temporary protection window. This layer does provide an excellent base for applying any protective coating over it. (20) Does ONR limit my LSP choice? Not that I'm aware of. The polymer coating left behind by ONR only provides a short protection window. The only possible exemption is when cleaning surfaces where nano technology products have already been applied - see below. However, there is no reason to not use ONR before applying nano-products. IMO, far too much is made of the polymers left behind by ONR. It's nowhere near the levels left behind by a wash and wax shampoo! Many LSPs have some form of solvent within them which will soon cut through the microscopic ONR layer anyway. (21) Will ONR affect other nano-technology treatments? Probably. The reason for this being that, by their very nature, the ONR polymers are not nano fine. I doubt that ONR will be on its own here, so I don't think this precludes you from using it. The cleaning will still be very thorough and ONR's polymers will provide only temporary covering of the nano coating; i.e. normal "weathering" will very soon reveal the original nano layer. The judgement call here is the level of cleaning required. If, however, you're more concerned about beading patterns directly after a wash, then ONR probably won't be for you. Unlike the windscreen, I would _not_ advocate using just plain water to wash a nano-coated car, especially if ONR solves a water access problem for you at any time of the year. (22) What about cleaning wheels? If you've previously sealed your wheels, washing them with ONR will be a breeze. Other than in Winter, they can also be cleaned with little more than a QD strength spray and an MF cloth wipe. However, what this means is that you're transferring brake dust from wheel to MF cloth, and thence possibly to a soak bucket, before a washing-machine wash. I have mixed feelings and strong doubts about this. So much so that on wheels, except at car shows, I exclusively use CG Hose-Free Eco Wash, HFE (See Key Links at post bottom) not ONR for wheel cleaning. In half a bucket of warm water, I use 1 capful of HFE per 2 wheels, using a noodle mitt to clean. There's no rinsing and no need to dry either! Note, I'll use 2 x half buckets rather than a full one for all 4 wheels. (23) What about tar and tree-sap? While ONR can be an effective cleaner, this doesn't mean that it will tackle anything and everything. The way to look at its possibilities is to try and imagine the bond between contaminant and paint. If a thin, water based liquid could permeate twixt the two and separate them, then ONR will work. Otherwise, your expectations are too high. ONR has little or no solvent properties. (24) Does diluted ONR "go off" if left? No, the diluted liquid does not weaken in strength if left to stand. What does happen though is the blue colouration will fade almost to clear. (25) Does using ONR really save time? Very definitely! Although some patience is required with allowing for dwell time, overall it should be possible to give the car a thorough clean in 20 minutes or less! Probably, to begin with, it may take longer than that. Certainly, the first few occasions of use may scare you a tad - but it won't be long before you'll wonder how you ever managed without it. Provided that you have adopted the safest methods advocated here, your new mind-set will probably give you more satisfaction than the 2BM, mostly because you've got good results and avoided all the extra work. (26) Is an ONR wash as effective as the 2BM? If this question means: is ONR giving me a "proper wash"?, then there is only one answer, definitely! I'll make no secret of it, with ONR available the 2BM is just wasteful, of water, energy, time and money. Be aware that using the 2BM with ONR is risky because you can reduce the protection of its polymers by over-dilution. ONR will give you a very satisfying result. I've a sneaking suspicion that part of OPT's design brief was to widen its target market to include enthusiastic detailers as well as those resident in water-limited areas. It seems to have succeeded way beyond this! (27) Does temperature make any performance difference? No. Whether using ONR as a QD from the spray bottle or using it at wash dilutions from the bucket, there is no cleaning performance gained by using warm water over that at ambient temperature. (28) A short glossary In very simple terms... Surfactants: The little critters that make water "wetter" so that dirt can be held in suspension. Polymers: Basically microscopic bits of plastic that combine to provide local lubrication when wet and produce a protective film upon evaporation. (29) Conclusions If getting water to a wash site is any kind of problem, whether it's because the hose won't reach or because carrying buckets is difficult or hazardous, then the automatic choice will be ONR. Its ease of use and sheer technological brilliance make it one of the "must haves". I'll readily admit my bias, but that's borne from the restored freedom to maintain my own motor in a way that satisfies me, despite being afflicted with gammy hands and a rather unsteady gait. I have sufficient confidence in the product to claim that you'd probably be impressed with it too. Give it a try, you will probably not look back. (30) Key Links and Other Resources Further ONR guidance here... A short movie to start Other threads on DW... ¶ BigPikle's ONR Wash Demo Video and ¶ ONR for the Grotty Jobs (bugs etc.) and ¶ My ONR Bucketless Wash Method ONR available from... (Beware: don't buy Optimum Car Wash!) ¶ Clean Your Car or ¶ Elite Car Care or ¶ Motorgeek or ¶ Polish Your Car or ¶ Sources via Amazon Wash Media... ¶ B+Q Tile Sponge or ¶ The OPT foam mitt or ¶ The Zymol sponge Hose Free Eco Wash... (Now Discontinued) ¶ My Guide and FAQ for HFE Regards, Steve Last edited by Lowiepete; 26-05-2017 at 01:55 PM. Reason: updated UK sources |
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#2 |
Moderator
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great info there mate
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to steview For This Useful Post: | Lowiepete (06-12-2010), southwest10 (17-02-2015) |
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#5 |
Washmitt Meister
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Thanks for this, I ordered some on the weekend to try.
Cant wait to try it out, but certainly feel a large amount of intrepidation about it. This guide has certainly helped |
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The Following User Says Thank You to d00bie For This Useful Post: | Lowiepete (06-12-2010) |
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#6 |
OCD Sufferer (Obsessive Car Detailer)
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maybe worth asking to add the video from youtube?
(brilliant guide!) |
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#7 |
Washmitt Meister
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Fantastic write up, has helped with some of my outstanding questions. Definately convinced me it's the way to go when it's not possible to get the PW out, like now!
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The Following User Says Thank You to buddy2shoes For This Useful Post: | Lowiepete (06-12-2010) |
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#8 |
I'm not addicted...I'm NOT!
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A word of caution with several of the YouTube videos - very few, if any, show
the ONR initially being applied in a contactless fashion. Whilst I eschew the 2BM, I don't advocate tossing surface care away with it. Especially at this time of year, a pre-spray and some dwell time are the alternative mantras! Regards, Steve Last edited by Lowiepete; 06-12-2010 at 04:52 PM. |
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#9 |
Distinguished Detailer
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very nice FAQ guide there fella
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The Following User Says Thank You to RandomlySet For This Useful Post: | Lowiepete (06-12-2010) |
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#10 |
Banned
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Good guide that mate, ive been considering using ONR for a while now but just cant get my head around it for some reason.
That guide has convinced me to give it a go. Thanks Gav |
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The Following User Says Thank You to DE 1981 For This Useful Post: | Lowiepete (06-12-2010) |
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less water washing, no rinse washing, onr wash & shine faq, onr wash & shine guide, optimum no rinse |
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