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PTFE/Teflon in wax

29K views 103 replies 33 participants last post by  adjones  
#1 ·
I have been to post this for a while but before i did I wanted to do my own testing.

As some of you may know I have been using PTFE in wax tests for a little over 12 months now and I have made over 100 blends with varying types of PTFE as well as PTFE based wax mixtures and I have come to one conclusion.

PTFE is no good in a wax or a sealent, it can never be used to increase the durability of a wax and as far as I can tell unless you heat your paint upto 500DegC or stick you car in a vacume, you will never get it to bond!

The only thing it could help with is the application of the wax, it could allow it to glide over the paint surface much easier, but whats the point in that, seems alot of extra expence for something that we have had no problems with for years!

What are other peoples thoughts on this? It would be interesting to hear other manufacturers points on the subject, Have they ever experimented with PTFE in blends in the past?

Read here for info on how it is used on pans - http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/10/get-teflon-stick-pans/
 
#5 ·
If this is possible I will hapilly carry on my research and report back, but I had a very lenghtly chat with someone from http://www.dupont.com/ and they were the original founders of PTFE and they make PTFE in varying ways and loads of different types, and they have told me that non of the ones the produce will work in a wax and they are not aware of any that will work.
 
#15 ·
I once did a very last minute non-scientific test prior to a long journey.
2 waxes from the same manufacturer, one with ptfe and both with reportedly equal carnauba content. The ptfe wax was slightly easier to buff off. The real difference was in bug removal and there was a discernible difference in effort required to remove splattered bugs the day after a 100 mile journey. It was a very slapdash test without major prep, but I may try to do it again in a couple of weeks based on this thread.

I do have another ptfe based wax from a manufacturer on here that I owe a test to so will do that one seperately on my commuter car.
 
#16 ·
Almost all of those claiming the benefits are marketeers or people who are using marketing literature as their information source. PTFE is great as a lubricant, as jay says, but its nature is that things dont stick to it. For non rocket scientists, the extension is that PTFE doesnt stick to things! You can put it into a wax but it will have practically no bond which means it just will not last.
 
#17 ·
I don't think anyone would expect it to bond in a wax as the particulate would be held in suspension. There are firms out there who claim to form a different type of bond by temperatures created in mechanical shear by polishers, though it's obvious this is different to the wax question.

I think the questioning should be focussed on whether the ptfe has any effect on dirt adhesion/water behaviour in suspension, rather than whether it bonds to paint.
 
#21 ·
Looking forward to any comments from manufacturers who use PTFE- or will that come under closely guarded 'Trade Secret' just to frustrate the question? So of those waxes incorporating PTFE- do they stay cleaner longer, look more blingie? And if they do what are the ingredients responsible for the difference? I honestly don't have the answers, just plenty of questions..
 
#23 ·
Just bear in mind labeling on wax products, well apart from listing any hazards on the msds (those that do msds...) - you can literally market anything.

I'm not saying people do, I'm not saying people don't - example the Dodo boys have fought long and hard over the years against ingredient claims.

However, I 'could' get a PTFE flake, similar in size to a bead of beeswax, put it into a 10kg wax batch and claim rightly so that the wax 'contains' ptfe.

As no manufacturer would ever provide a recipe under secrecy terms, then that's where any investigation would end. However a manufacturer should be able to advise you what the addition of such an ingredient brings to the blend. However as a manufacturer, they would rightly be able to claim it has PTFE in it.

Anyway, above is my personal ish thoughts, not directed at anyone nor degrading any other products. I know what goes in mine and that's all that matters tbh.



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#27 ·
It is my thought that PTFE would not need to bond to paint. If it did it would be permanent like a coating on a pan...

Would it not be the case that providing the PTFE remains within the applied wax mixture/blend then it will exhibit it's properties. Such as slick feeling and easier cleaning etc.

I mean, oils don't really bond to paint as far as I'm aware yet waxes contain them nearly all the time. If they do bond, it's not very well because if I went outside, smeared sunflower oil on my ride, it would mostly wash off with rain within a weeks or month at most.

Just moy thoughts which I think are pretty logic based. That said, I also can't help but notice it's all a bit odd with waxes. Otto did that test in the Wax thread where Candelila wax was just as good and durable as carnuba yet no one uses that much.

He also highlighted how candelila is produced in smaller quantities and is more expensive. Some how, it's all about carnuba still.

I think it's a case of people will believe what they want to and not what is logical or founded on fact and testing.
 
#28 ·
I spoke to my guy here who is a chemist and elastomer guru. He says it does help (we don't have a vested interest in car waxes or anything and don't make them) he says it will reduce the friction coefficient of the wax. once its brought onto the car the PTFE will stay in it and makes cleaning and water resistance better. He stressed that if the wax is gone the PTFE is gone too. its does not bind to anything easily but is used in elastomers to help reduce friction.
 
#31 ·
Bouncer is spot on with his comments. PTFE will not bond to paint unless it is heated, wax doesn't bond to paint, it's 'held' in the micro pores forming an anchor. PTFE is a polymer and as such its only contribution could be to help with initial spreadability

" This wax contains PTFE" there is nothing untruthful, we just associate PTFE with its non-stick properties. Marketing science fiction and pure suggestion ...
 
#36 ·
Bouncer is spot on with his comments. PTFE will not bond to paint unless it is heated, wax doesn't bond to paint, it's 'held' in the micro pores forming an anchor. PTFE is a polymer and as such its only contribution could be to help with initial spreadability


I don't think that 'anchor' comment is accurate. You are also stating that the fact that it is "a polymer and as such its only contribution could be to help with initial spreadability". Yes, it may be a polymer but that doesn't lead to its only contribution being to help with initial spreadability. There are endless polymers which this does not apply to.

Someone earlier implied that it was obvious that PFTE did not bond, else it would be permanent. This is a vast oversimplification and inaccurate. Bonding is not black and white, it is shades of grey. There are different types of bonding, each of which has different strengths. Within the types, there are further divisions again. There are many things which bond quite well but are far from permanent.