[Noob-detailer]

Onr is the king of rinseless.

Will take a lot of convincing otherwise. Everyone else is playing catchup imo.

 

[Noob-detailer]

Only ever used a noodle. Mine came in a TW set many years back and anything I've seen isn't as nice. There will be some better than others but plushness and noodles per square inch seem to differ.
Luckily, I have three or even four because the set went on offer in Costco for clearance so I'm all set. What I like about them is you can almost let the noodles do the work without a firm contact, sort of float over in light dirt. I am fairly reluctant to try any sponge due to the full contact area. I suppose there's only one way to find out but since my noodle works so well, why change or risk it. I am tempted by the multiple cloth method but then they all need washing at some point and it's direct contact again. If it works....

BRS has been great for me.

My paint is soft as cheese and havent noticed any marring.

 

[Noob-detailer]

Yeh I was definitely hesitant before I used my big sponge, but after trying a regular wash mitt (not noddle), multiple cloths method, I went back to the big sponge as it just felt the best for me. Like you say @shine247 the best method is the one that works for you.

The extra lubricity you get from rinseless washes is also reassuring when using with a big sponge.

However you've now got me thinking should I try using a chenille noodle for rinseless 🤔. I use it for a shampoo wash so maybe rinseless too?

I tried and didnt like the mitt for rinseles.

Too easy to pit too much contact in one place, also i just didnt like the way it feels because rinseless feels basically like water you dont get the same lube feeling as you do when using soap. .

The sponge is def the way to go with rinseless imo, it also releases any particles easier vs microfiber and mitts. Microfiber is designed to grab onto stuff and hold it. The sponge picks it up and it goes into the slits then falls out when you rinse the sponge (helped by the rinseless properties)

 

[Noob-detailer]

Detailing Projects on YouTube has RRW and ONR as top dogs for rinseless. Forensic Detailing also seems to prefer RRW over ONR, at least with how often I see him bringing it up during videos

Pretty sure that was because its the cheapest. It won out on price iirc FD is strong on value/dilutions.

 

[Noob-detailer]

I've seen DP videos, he likes ONR but might prefer RRW 🤷‍♂️. It's very much swings and roundabouts but as I say, I'm pleased I only bought a litre, at this time at least. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a gallon of ONR though. Using it all up will be the challenge for me. 😂

Really? Lol i burn thru a couple gallons a year easy.

Beween ONR and Surfex Hd just ignoring the rediculous anount of uses/chemicals they replace on car maintanance. Most of our home cleaners have been replaced withone of the two.

Basically it goes like this

Is it glossy (eg kitchen cabinets) - ONR
is it greasy/dirty (BBQ/ hob/cooker/microwave) Surfex HD.

On another note ive heard from the man himself Mr Hamber that they are currently working on A proper rinseless wash (not the auto qd one) cant wait for that to throw a spanner in the works. We we all know how good they are on value/performance

 

[Noob-detailer]

My findings were that it's similar but a bit better in every way. It is marginal though. I really like the fragrance of the GT stuff too, but it's not like RRW smells bad. I would say ONR is the best for fragrance, if you like it.

Let me show you the difference in surfactants in Feynlab compared to ONR here. I found the GT was just as good as doing this btw.

Its well accepted that ONR doesnt clean your media, infact i always gove the sponge a little clean with some surfex HD after usage and all the grease etc its soaked up comes out.

But if i had a choice between dropping particles off the sponge/media and out of suspension to the bottom of the bucket meaning no marrring vs having a clean looking media i know which one id choose.

Onr is so good at what it does that if im doing a soap was i use it in my mitt rinse bucket as an extra safeguard and it still manages to drop all the dirt and crud to the bottom.

I think the red version hyperfoam is basically orignal ONR with some added surfactants because the only real criticism was about not being able to clean the media

 

[Noob-detailer]

I haven't seen that specifically but I have seen a comment by someone from ONR which mentioned it's not a heavy degreaser so that would support what you say when it comes to breaking down certain types of dirt on wash media. In any case, I don't necessarily think it's a requirement or something I would want it to do. Having a good balance to achieve an overall decent result on everyday car contaminate is the aim, I'm sure they could increase certain attributes if they felt it necessary and now they are on revision 6, they have had plenty of chance.

As a side point, almost everyone says ONR has no surfactants. ONR does contain Morpholine oleate which is an anionic surfactant. It also has other solvent type chemicals which can break down dirt. They put into it what they think works and seem to use chemicals that are not rated high when looking at their SDS. I wouldn't go as far as saying ONR is the best because that's always down to the individual user and how they use it and I can't even say it for myself as a limited user but it's always worked well.
It's only latterly I've thought to try others because that's how you find what you like.

The difference between Onrs surfactant/polymer mix and the surfactant only base ones is that it emulsifies the dirt/grease and its absorbed by the media and then the polymers drop the particles out of the suspension.

Someone did a test where they mixed ONR with oil and it emulsified it vs the oil sitting on the surface of the mixture.

This is why its not then being removed from the media when it goes back into the bucket as its been absorbed rather than sitting on the surface of it.

Im enjoying this discussion tbh

The above might be something you could test yourself as you have the knack it seems for testing/reporting?

 

[Noob-detailer]

On the emulsification point, your certinaly right that to mix it with pure oil and see emulsification then it would take a lot of effort, But if your vehicle is covered in pure oil then your choice of rinseless may be the least of your problems.

realistically your looking at traffic film removal so a mix of diesel/oil/dirt. In these small quantities that your going to be removing each time (with each wipe/swipe) then maybe the agitation is enough, It must be right? Because everyone moans that the wash media gets dirty and when finished if you stick a small bit of surfex on the media the amount of black stuff thats been absorbed by the media and released by the surfex is increadible. Yet the Wash bucket looks mostly clean except for the particles at the bottom (under your grit guard)

These products are made and designed by people far smarter than myself.

I have some onr here. But no other rinseles unfortunately if i can find a clear cup im going to add some 256-1 and give it a little swirl and post a couple pics as ive piqued my own interest. (Unles someone beats me too it ofc!)

Ok so i added a small teaspoon of onr to 2 teaspoons of water and then added 1 same size spoon of vegetable oil and gave it a good stir.

Seems ive successfully created some ONR salad dressing, no oil sitting on the surface, its encapsulated the lot and has a wierd milky texture

 

[Noob-detailer]

Just fyi my favorite Rinseless washing is method is a hybrid now days ill list the process below, it fills the gap imo between car being too dirty for rinseless.

i like to do the following using either 2 5 ltr pump sprayers or this time of year i use my ik foam pro 12 as it helps the prewash to not dry out so fast. (Plus its cool )

Bh Touchless @ 70-1 in an Ik foamer pre spray/soak the car

ONR @ 256-1 mixed in a bucket and the other 5ltr pump sprayer.

spray down whole car with rinseless mix, this does 2 things, washes away the pre wash and wets the panells out. Doesnt matter if ONR drys on the panels as the polymer spots just wipe off with the contact

then using BRS and bucket with GG, wash the entire car again i dont care if it drys as it makes no real difference.

i then either go back with the 5ltr sprayer and wet and dry a panel or two at a time or my current fav is using BH Auto QD at 20-1 as a drying aid qd.

doing it like the above you still get the benefit of not having the get the hose/pressurewasher/soap faf out, dont have to worry about water or soap spotting and get the both of both worlds. An incredibly effective pre wash to remove 90% of the solids/bugs/TF etc and then a perfectly safe quick and effective rinseless wash.

 

[Noob-detailer]

@Noob-detailer your process is almost identical to mine except this bit which is interesting...



I usually use a hose with a spray gun attachment to rinse off the touchless. Then spray over the water with ONR via pump sprayer like you so I don't have to worry about water spotting.

Do you not find the touchless requires some pressure to wash off effectively? PW would be ideal but I get good results with my spray gun as the pressure is very good, but never thought about just rinsing straight off with a pump sprayer!

Onr Will pick the touchless up and kick it off the panell, Its like spraying a liquid sponge over the car, it really is increadible how it works. its great try it out

have been doing my rinseless washng this way for a long time.

 

[Noob-detailer]

Can you also do it with other Rinseless or just ONR?

cant fully answer that one

ONR is polymer based so thats what it does, it picks stuff up from the panel and encapsulates it

check out what it does to oil that i posted above or what the original Op posted to show what it does. i believe theres another polymer one absolute i think?

the rest are surfactant based, is why ive no interest in using them as its basically just soap that doesnt leave any kind of soap spots behind. Id like to see the residue these soap based rinseless washes leave behind vs onr. The polymer spots onr leaves behind if it dries just wipe off with a MF.

 

[Noob-detailer]

Quite a lot of the rinseless washes are a hybrid of surfactant and polymers, Koch Chemie has both and will leave polymer spots which just wipe off.
I think a fully surfactant rinseless is the one by Mckees.

I've read that a polymer based rinseless will bead when sprayed on the surface where a more surfactant based one will sort of lay flat on the surface.

I find this with ONR defiantly, it beads up and you can see it picking the guff off whatever surface its on.

i suppose the no soap left behind makes sense, esp when you can get products like adams blue shampoo and angelwax angelwash ( doesnt seem to exist anywhere anymore) that are self drying.

edit tripplewax sell one also called “liquid gold” (terrible name for a shampoo lol)

 

[Noob-detailer]

That's very interesting, I'll try it out on my next wash.

When I do a rinseless wash, if I do use touchless as a prewash, I usually only use it for part of the car. Common scenarios are:

1. Applying touchless to the lower part of the car when it's just general dirt. E.g Side skirts, bottom of bumpers
2. After a long motorway drive in summer. Car is usually still clean but front bumper is covered in bug splats. So touch-less is applied on the bumper only, and maybe bottom of side skirts.

I feel like your approach would work well with scenario 1, but for scenario 2, I'd still use a hose to wash off the bugs, as although the pre-wash would have softened the bugs, they'd still likely be on the panel. I don't like the idea of going in with my big sponge with visible bugs still on the car!

My car has 2 coats of Siramik Lusterous plus applied, i always cover the whole car with touchless every wash (hadnt degraded the coating at all) i find that it softens the bugs enough that they mostly come off with just the pressure from the pump sprayer tbh and anything that does remain just needs a soft wipe with the sponge. Dont
Forget most pump sprayers can be adjusted
To give out a Stream when needed also!

personally i cant see a reason not to use touchless at every wash ever except if your worried about cost. If i can spend an extra 30p per wash and reduce the chances of a scratch that i will have to look at forever or remove the need for scrubbing its worth every penny and every bit of effort to me.

even if you had no coating at all, i think that the combo of touchless and then onr picking up 90% of the remains you would be perfectly fine in not rinsing but its called “rinseless” for a reason. Doesnt mean you cant rinse at all, just find a way of working that works for you.

at the end of the day i see detailing/car cleaning as a hobby and having fun or just that escape for an hour or so from work or the kids is what matters