[JayOW]

But I am with AW on this one. Until I find a way of making it work and have 100% side by side proof that it does work I will not be using it in any of my blends.

 

[suds]

Not in the blends I have tested. Most waxes will repel dirty water as per most videos of coating on YouTube. But this is down to the polymers. For example my phantom wax has 4 different polymers in it. 1 to aid durability. 1 to help with gloss and 1 to help with application and removal and 1 is for UV protection. But I have not tested the UV protection qualities of the wax yet so I don't advertise it as having them.

Which reminds me of one of my initial thoughts- are producers using "PTFE" as a generic phrase when actually using something like a co-polymer based (loosely or otherwise) on the original? Although in any event I have no idea whether that just presents the same issues debated. Still a cracking thread and I've never knowingly bought a wax with "PTFE" - clearly this thread should at least make people think twice...

 

[Obi- Dan Karnubi]

I've also tried and tested various ptfe waxes, solutions etc but i have not found one that gave me more durability or better resistance to chemicals or dirt/grime. I came to the same conclusion as other manufacturers on here. I've found there's much better ingredients for durability/resistance/water behaviour. That's not too say its impossible.

Dan

 

[JayOW]

Tonight I am going to make a new batch of phantom. I am going to produce 2 pots but one will have ptfe powder in it and the other wont. Will be an interesting test.

 

[Mikej857]

Tonight I am going to make a new batch of phantom. I am going to produce 2 pots but one will have ptfe powder in it and the other wont. Will be an interesting test.

With all the comments I'm intrigued to know the results, Phantom is one of the easiest waxes I use thats currently available so will the ptfe add or detract from this?

 

[Trip tdi]

I'm just thinking of swissvax endurance, this has a different method to apply the panel temperature has to be 30 degrees and over for it to bond fully and work to its maximum life as attended, I was informed endurance has more ptfe than sheild and is on the pro market for retailers, will ir work the ptfe or is this marketing waffle to sell the product in quick volume. I know ptfe treatments offer a smoother glide and a silky smooth finish, in theory offer less resistance to airboutne particles but for how long, I have a feeling the ptfe will be washed away in the next wash.

 

[Trip tdi]

This thread is a eye opener for sure and extremely interesting.

 

[stangalang]

I have a request to the wax producers in this thread, and or chemists. As a complete novice in such maters, i can only speak from a detailers perspective. The products i have used that "contain ptfe", and please don't think i make assumptions about percentages etc, are all very slippy to apply and very slick on the paint. Would you guys be able to figure out what it IS that they are using to make their products so? Assuming they do "contain ptfe", in minute quantities, and this makes little to no difference to the actual wax, then whatever Is creating the limited drag should be easy to find? Other polymers etc. Can this be done?

Just a differing way to nail down a proper answer!

 

[angelw]

As previously stated PTFE in a solid paste style wax is a waste of time ,it doesn't work and will either sink to the bottom of the pot or float to the top ,depending on the carrier solvent mix.
It is in my opinion as a degree qualified chemist ,that PTFE doesn't give any benefit in a paste wax.

 

[suds]

Tonight I am going to make a new batch of phantom. I am going to produce 2 pots but one will have ptfe powder in it and the other wont. Will be an interesting test.

Forget Wimbledon- this is the final I'm looking forward to :thumb:

 

[Alex L]

Quite an interesting topic :thumb:

I wonder if we'll see a ptfe based wax in the future? in a similar vein on TACs FB they are working on a 100% silica glass coating. The biggest problem theyre having is knowing how to apply it correctly.

 

[Pittsy]

Now i have just had a read through this thread (a bit bored at work) and i have got a couple of things to add...
Please bear in mind i am no expert in any of this, i have a vague idea about polymer science because of the industry i work in (plastics).
I am currently talking to a couple of companies about getting some machine parts teflon coated to aid with slip (PET bottles are really sticky especially when warm) for a new project at work.
Now both companies have told me that the parts need to be sent to them, why i asked and they said for the coating to bond to the parts it needs to be baked on at high temperature.....
With this in mind you would have to stick your car in a massive oven to get any benefit from the PTFE so it bonds to the paint work.
I then discussed spray application with them, they told me that PTFE sprays hold the the PTFE in suspension and any non slip benefits are only short lived because of the carriers, as in when the carrier is gone the PTFE goes too.
We also use Teflon coated tape for a variety of different applications, yet again i discussed this with the coaters and they said that the Teflon on the tape is yet again heated to a really high temperature to get it to bond with the tape.

With all this in mind the only benefit i can see of having PTFE in a wax would be in suspended form as an aid for application, because there is no bond to the paintwork or to the wax it is suspended in (please note suspended rather than bonded with because of the incompatability of the melting points).

So PTFE molecules suspended in wax should aid with application but thats it...

Now this is just what i can extrapalate from the information i know so please dont take this as fact.:thumb:

 

[JayOW]

Forget Wimbledon- this is the final I'm looking forward to :thumb:

2 samples made and passed on for testing purposes. I had to make sure the wax was like custard before pouring so the ptfe stayed in suspension rather than sinking to the bottom.

 

[Pittsy]

2 samples made and passed on for testing purposes. I had to make sure the wax was like custard before pouring so the ptfe stayed in suspension rather than sinking to the bottom.

Do they look or pour any different?

 

[TOGWT]

a) Teflon® PTFE (DuPont): [: a polymer of the monomer tetrafluoroethylene]

Teflon® will help 'spread ability' (but then so do silicon oils) it does nothing for durability because of its required application method-although Teflon® is an exceptional product when used as intended; it provides no benefit in a wax or polish.

1) According to G.R. Ansul of DuPont's Car Care Products, Specialty Products Division, "The addition of a Teflon® fluoropolymer resin (PTFE) does nothing to enhance the properties of a car wax.

We have no data that indicates the use of Teflon® fluoropolymer resins is beneficial in car waxes, and we have not seen data from other people that support this position." Manufacturers of gimmicky, over-hyped products sometimes claim that their products contain Teflon®, hoping that the consumer will believe there is something special about that product.

Ansul also notes that, "Unless Teflon® is applied at 700 degrees F, and using a dissolving chemical C8, it is not a viable ingredient, and is 100 percent useless in protecting the paint's finish." This is hot enough that your car's paint (let alone your car) wouldn't survive.

Information resource-
Grisanti, Stephen "The Truth About Teflon®" Professional Car washing & Detailing, Jan1989)

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...cgi/nph-...RS=PN/4,284,668http://www.fluoropolymer-facts.com/w...opolymers.html

 

[JayOW]

Do they look or pour any different?

Nope both look exactly the same. And feel the same.

 

[Pittsy]

Nope both look exactly the same. And feel the same.

Well there you go then, i guess the test will be in application and performance there after :thumb:

This thread has got me interested so i think i am going to drop a line to the coating company and see if they have got any info :thumb:

 

[angelw]

Coatings and waxes, two totally different things,there is no real comparison between the two.

 

[adjones]

Quite an interesting topic :thumb:

I wonder if we'll see a ptfe based wax in the future? in a similar vein on TACs FB they are working on a 100% silica glass coating. The biggest problem theyre having is knowing how to apply it correctly.

I am taking this with an ENORMOUS pinch of salt. The reality is that 100% silica glass is... errrrr... silica glass! That makes it, for most intents and purposes, a solid piece of glass. I would interpret that they are likely playing the carnauba content game - the product would not be 100% silica glass but the part which constitutes the final coating (i.e. not carriers etc) would be 100% silica glass. To complicate this further, I understand that these coatings are reactive - they are not actually silica glass in solution. They are a mix of other things which, when applied and exposed to the atmosphere, become a silica coating. As such, there isn't actually any silica in the product (unless it has started curing prematurely).

Another comment of note is that PTFE is used inaccurately by many people. Many (if not most) detailers, with whom I have spoken, don't know that a fluoropolymer (i.e. a fluorine containing polymer) is distinct from PTFE. The reality is that PTFE is one fluoropolymer and there are thousands of them out there. Fluoropolymers are used in detailing products (although are often discouraged in the EU because of regulatory issues) and, as I understand, they would have potential to be used in waxes (although, again, as slip additives). However, anyone claiming that these products contain PTFE would be demonstrating a massive lack of chemical knowledge.

 

[AllenF]

More bloody hype lol.
Ptfe only really has one use.
That is to stop leaks.. Never tried polishing a motor with a roll of it though